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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:19 pm 
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That is likely the answer, Asteria. Ame noticed that Halli especially seemed disturbed the past few days & had trouble staying with the egg. Perhaps if an egg is dead inside they can tell somehow. I suppose like with mammals a heartbeat can be heard, so maybe in the past few days the heartbeat stopped when the embryo died, & if they do not hear the heart sounds, the parents get discouraged & abandon the egg.

Edit, 19:30-- One of the parents suddenly returned to the egg. It was muttering softly to itself by the cam, then jumped down into the nest. I can't tell which one it is, but I think Pruuni. I can't quite see the back of her head to see if there are "eye" spots.

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:31 pm 
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Kitty KCMO wrote:
That is likely the answer, Asteria. Ame noticed that Halli especially seemed disturbed the past few days & had trouble staying with the egg. Perhaps if an egg is dead inside they can tell somehow. I suppose like with mammals a heartbeat can be heard, so maybe in the past few days the heartbeat stopped when the embryo died, & if they do not hear the heart sounds, the parents get discouraged & abandon the egg.


The egg would have started "talking" by now when it was ok, perhaps it didn't. Anyway if Reno visits the nest and takes the egg it will be clear what happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:31 pm 
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Parent bird came back at 19:29.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:34 pm 
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So the probability of the second reason increased. :unsure: Grieta acted exactly the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:35 pm 
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The return of the long-gone. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:47 pm 
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Halli ahs returned at 19.29 and he's staying there. what has happened to Pruuni??


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:48 pm 
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ame wrote:
Halli ahs returned at 19.29 and he's staying there. what has happened to Pruuni??

Is it Halli, then? I couldn't really tell. He sits so absolutely still! :puzzled: If the leaves did not move, I would think the cam was stuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:52 pm 
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it looks like Halli to me. he also has some lighter patterns in the back of his head but the patterns are very prominant on Pruuni. she seems to have one or two "eyes",, depending on the day, but the "smiling mouth" is always there. Halli tends to have "eyes" only. the patterns they have differ a bit from day to day.
-they stay very still in rain.

what has become of Pruuni!??


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:56 pm 
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Pruuni . . . :cry: He would not even have a chance to raise a chick without her, but I imagine he will not have to try as the egg surely got way too cold today. I wonder if he heard some kind of distress call from her when he left this afternoon & he went to look for her & that is why he was gone so long.

Oh, listen to the rain now.

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 6:58 pm 
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now it really begins to pour down with rain. Halli is lying there still and a blackbird is singing somewhere nearby.

... and i'm beginning to feel really bad....


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:03 pm 
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Kitty KCMO wrote:
Pruuni . . . :cry: He would not even have a chance to raise a chick without her, but I imagine he will not have to try as the egg surely got way too cold today. I wonder if he heard some kind of distress call from her when he left this afternoon & he went to look for her & that is why he was gone so long.

Oh, listen to the rain now.

dumb and i can't tell what if anything made him leave the last time. my VLC had crashed while i was out shopping...

i don't think that the jays posed a realistic threat to them at any time, not even when there were two here at the same time. Mr B was ok all the time. actually it was Halli almost every time when the jays came here. i don't know why.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:09 pm 
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:unsure: Well, I guess there is nothing to be done about it. All we can do is watch & see how things unfold. I hope Pruuni is OK & is just off somewhere because her ties to the egg were interrupted by whatever tragedy occured to it. They have been an interesting pair to watch & we have learned much about a bird we did not know before.

I feel bad, too. It looks like Halli does, too, although someone will say I am being anthropomorphic. Still, animals do have some feelings & certainly the pair-bond is strong between these birds, so why not some depression (if not grief) when it is broken?

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:13 pm 
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Kitty KCMO wrote:
That is likely the answer, Asteria. Ame noticed that Halli especially seemed disturbed the past few days & had trouble staying with the egg. Perhaps if an egg is dead inside they can tell somehow. I suppose like with mammals a heartbeat can be heard, so maybe in the past few days the heartbeat stopped when the embryo died, & if they do not hear the heart sounds, the parents get discouraged & abandon the egg.

.....

i wouldn't be surprised if they did notice that the heartbeat dies off, but nevertheless there are numerous reports of parent animals holding on to their dead offspring almost as long as they can. they don't give up easily. take Tiina for instance: she keeps dragging the broken egg back to the centre of the nest. -also gorilla or chimp mamas may drag their dead young with them for days on without letting them go. - i think this is about something else here but i have no clue what it could be. i haven't seen or heard anything disturbing and i have been watching rather constantly... of course i haven't watched every second or minute... when were the eagle calls you heard Kitty?

this is even worse now: it's Halli in the nest in the evening when it should be Pruuni's turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:23 pm 
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Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about the problems here. Everything seemed to go so well...

Last year, Metras eggs were both damaged. They tried to replace the damaged eggs with a new one, but Metra had lost her incubating/hatching instinct and she did not return to the nest. Macho came to the nest, but he could not manage to feed the chick. I really hope not, but maybe if the egg is damage, Pruuni have lost her incubating instinct?? I hope nothing has happened to her :unsure: Ame, wasn't Pruuni gone for a long time a while ago?


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:27 pm 
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ame wrote:
i haven't seen or heard anything disturbing and i have been watching rather constantly... of course i haven't watched every second or minute... when were the eagle calls you heard Kitty?

this is even worse now: it's Halli in the nest in the evening when it should be Pruuni's turn.

I think it was 3 or 4 days ago. I should have made a note of it at the time, but I did not. :blush: Halli was in the nest at the time. I remember thinking, "is that Pruuni calling," then I realized it was an eagle call rather than the softer call of the buzzard. I also remember feeling some worry about Pruuni being out & about with an eagle in the area, but she was back at the nest again later when I looked, so everything seemed OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:27 pm 
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maertha wrote:
ame wrote:
maertha: i didn't hear any disturbing factors yesterday. on the contrary e.g. i've written in my notebook: "17.22 Pruuni is lying peacefully". i've heard an eagle call here only once all this time and that was before the egg was laid, maybe on the previous day. i'm not sure, i'd have to check the notes, but it is a long time ago.


I meant this note, ame: "Halli is restless today: he began to call at 16.56, got up on the back rim of the nest, looked around the forest, and what do you know: he took off! he called meow - meow - ... a long time there as he flew further away. i wonder what he saw that made him go this time."

But the "eagle alarm" was just a thought, it based on nothing but the happenings from last year.

ok i remember this one. to me there seemed to be no reason to get up and go off, but obviously Halli saw or heard something that had to be dealt with. i have the video waiting for uploading.
it was in the queue for uploading last night but for some reason my mobile web connection had collapsed so all uploading was stopped. i did notice it so late (well at about 2 am or so..) that i couldn't finish the upload before i had to start the watch on the nest at 4. i can't do both at the same time, upload pictures and stuff and download camera stream...


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:27 pm 
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Grieta first left the nest for a long time and then just ate both eggs, then both eagles left the nest.

Tiina and Tiit don't touch the unhatched egg because unlike LSE the storks don't eat eggs.


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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 7:31 pm 
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Lussi05 wrote:
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about the problems here. Everything seemed to go so well...

Last year, Metras eggs were both damaged. They tried to replace the damaged eggs with a new one, but Metra had lost her incubating/hatching instinct and she did not return to the nest. Macho came to the nest, but he could not manage to feed the chick. I really hope not, but maybe if the egg is damage, Pruuni have lost her incubating instinct?? I hope nothing has happened to her :unsure: Ame, wasn't Pruuni gone for a long time a while ago?

Pruuni has been the reliable one. of course i should make some sort of a schetch to properly see but i have a feeling that she didn't leave nest without Halli staying there instead of her , except in the mornings when she went "to the loo" for a minute or two. of course i have no real idea where she went to... (we humans get up in the middle of the night to go to the loo or to take a drink of water. buzzards don't much drink i think.. :mrgreen: )

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 8:02 pm 
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ame I'm sorry,sorry to come here to such bad news.. :cry:
I'm being called away but I will post later.
My heart goes out to you ame. :sad:

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 Post subject: Re: Buzzard Nest Webcam Discussion - 2012 ESTLAT
PostPosted: June 1st, 2012, 10:02 pm 
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I don't like this at all.

I hope we see Pruuni again.


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