Estonian LSE Nest Discussion 2012 ~ Tuuli & Remo

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Starling
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Re: Estonian LSE Nest Discussion 2012 ~ Tuuli & Remo

Post by Starling »

Amsel67 wrote: ...The parents were on their ways to find food, which is not easy nowadays, they didnt hear their eaglet, otherwise they would have helped. And if even not, ..they were the teachers for their baby, it has to learn to defend itself. But parents are not bad, like the goshawk is not bad...
Yes, it´s been a lot of talking here that this could have been a bad mice/frog year. I don´t know if this is true. There was enough food for Stephi. Parents did a good job with it. But it is very possible the parents had to travel very long distances to find those preys. :nod:
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Post by Amsel67 »

asteria wrote: Did I ever call them "bad"? It were your words and your interpretation, not mine! I am only talking about the facts and express my opinion even if somebody dislikes it. Or do you think that there are only two views: your own and wrong?

It was nature here four years ago when Donna killed and ate two chicks(and it is much worse than to be killed in fight) but it was also nature when Tiit and Tiina supported little Neli and Tiit fed her even when other storklets flew away! So even the same kind of birds can behave in a different way. And yes, open the pages about Tormi and compare how it was a year ago and now, it really differs a lot. Maybe Tuuli thought if it was OK last year she could be more careless this time, I don't know. I am trying to understand it.
Oh sorry!! To me it seemed to be accusing words. If not, sorry!
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Post by Trillian »

asteria wrote: It was nature here four years ago when Donna killed and ate two chicks but it was also nature when Tiit and Tiina supported little Neli and Tiit fed her even when other storklets flew away! So even the same kind of birds can behave in a different way. And yes, open the pages about Tormi and compare how it was a year ago and now, it really differs a lot. Maybe Tuuli thought if it was OK last year she could be more careless this time, I don't know. I am trying to understand it.
you are comparing apples and pears, as we say in german. In the first case, it seems to be a reduction of the number of chicks in an early stage, to ensure, that the rest would have the best chances. In the second case, it is normal behavior to feed the chicks, untill they fledge.

Of course they can behave in different ways, but one should be carefull in interpreting facts too easy. There are too many factors, which influences the wildlife and which we have no idea of.
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Post by Chimega »

Eagles are not the normal diet for goshawks, apparently.

European Goshawk (Accipiter gentilis)

The European Goshawk is the largest Accipiter (true hawk). They are a fast and skillful hunter, capable of sudden bursts of speed, darting from trees and branches with great agility due to their unique build consisting of short, rounded wings and very a long tail. As its Accipiter cousins (Sparrow Hawk, Sharpshinned Hawk, and Cooper Hawk) it is stealthy and reclusive therefore difficult to observe in it habitat. Due to its high strung disposition, this bird isn't for the beginner falconer. They prey mostly on woodland bird species, such as crows, jays and pigeons, however rabbits, squirrels, and a variety of small rodents are also a big part of their diet. The European Goshawks is one of the few raptors to normally attack humans at the nest site, unfortunately many protective parents meet their end due to this behavior. They range from Morocco, Iberia, Britain, and Scandinavia across Eurasia to the Bering Sea and even Japan. The European Goshawks is a classical bird of falconry, in Medieval times it was flown by the common man, the male being reserved for serfs.
http://www.roninair.com/old/squadron.html
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Post by asteria »

In my opinion they can behave in different ways because of different "family models". Maybe when Donna was a kid, her parents also killed her weak siblings and she did the same while in Tiit and Tiina families parents love and uprised all the storklets. As people are different, the storks can be different too.
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Post by lukris »

Amsel67 wrote: Someone said: if we would have watched the hawk nest, and a LSE would kill a baby of them, we would also be so sad, and blame it on the LSE. That is not ok.
I think you were mentioning my earlier comment, but this is not exactly, what I meant. I meant that if we are watching one animal, we attach our feeling to the particular animal, and that is only human. But we should not blame other predator for being what he is - a bird of prey! If we were watching his nest, we would also have warm feelings towards him, but we must remember - that is the way the nature simply is. Predators kill in order to live and that's life. And the same goes for us, humans - we feel sad, even understanding, that the nature can be cruel.
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Post by asteria »

The camera is alive again!
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Post by Starling »

And of course it´s ok to like some animals/ species more than others. Some prefers cats over dogs and so on... :shake:
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Post by Granny »

Hello again! You wonder why Tuuli and Remo didn't help and defend Stephi. "Perhaps they were shopping food" you try to humanize. Have you watched how ospreys behave when a human being climbs to their nest in order to ring the chicks: the parents do not try to defend the chicks though they are quite near, they never do!!! They only alarm. And the chicks don't try to defend themselves either, they stay quite calm. But as you saw, Stephi defended herself furiously both against the goshawk and the "ringing-man". So, different species behave in different ways, that's it.
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Post by Trillian »

Chimega wrote:Eagles are not the normal diet for goshawks, apparently.
other sources tell us, they are. The english (Babelfish) translation of the preys, that are listed in the german Wikipedia-Thread about Hawks:

In Central Europe ranging from the Kinglet geese mammals of mice to adult rabbits and teenage rabbits. Small to medium-sized birds of prey and owls are captured regularly, in Central Europe especially sparrowhawks and Kestrels, but also common and Milvus, nest young or newly fledged even Eagle and lesser spotted eagle are defeated. Mostly animals with a used but body mass of 0.05 1.0 kg, in Central Europe especially pigeons, thrushes, Crow and Galliformes. Grouse in the taiga of Scandinavia and Russia dominate in the diet, in addition, Crow, wood pigeons and squirrels play an important role.
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asteria
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Post by asteria »

Granny wrote:Hello again! You wonder why Tuuli and Remo didn't help and defend Stephi. "Perhaps they were shopping food" you try to humanize. Have you watched how ospreys behave when a human being climbs to their nest in order to ring the chicks: the parents do not try to defend the chicks though they are quite near, they never do!!! They only alarm. And the chicks don't try to defend themselves either, they stay quite calm. But as you saw, Stephi defended herself furiously both against the goshawk and the "ringing-man". So, different species behave in different ways, that's it.
Meanwhile swans attack like mad anyone who dares to comes to their kids, even when the kids are the same size with parents, small birds try to pretend to be "injured" and fly away to attract the attention of the "intruder" to themselves, not to the chicks.(seems that messages should be moved to "Behaviour" topic)
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Post by Trillian »

interesting in this connection:
Chimega wrote:(...)The European Goshawks is one of the few raptors to normally attack humans at the nest site, unfortunately many protective parents meet their end due to this behavior. (...)

http://www.roninair.com/old/squadron.html
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Post by Maxie4Paws »

scylla wrote:My heartfelt sympathy to all of you who have been devoted to Stephi since she was born.

My story:

I monitor the Loch Garten osprey nest so I don't have as much time for Stephi as I would like. On Tuesday I could only get pictures of a tail on a branch, and I saved them as "Stephi on branch" because I thought she must be branching. On Wednesday I recorded the nest for more than 7 hours, hoping I would catch her coming and going, but last night when I went through the recording I found only an empty nest all day. I went to my Gmail account to find the link to this forum, so that I could learn about how LSEs fledge - and to my horror I found in my emails a message from "Manu" telling me of Stephi's fate. What a terrible shock, I so loved that beautiful bird.

There has been so much tragedy this year: in the UK the "evil" weather has caused many failed nests and lost chicks - on the Loch Garten nest a chick was tormented and killed by its sisters because food was short; at Dyfi 2 chicks died from lack of food and the other, as you have already been told, was revived by human intervention (he has thrived and will soon migrate to west Africa).

I only started following raptors at the beginning of last season, which was a happy one, but this season has brought much sadness and taught me not to judge wild creatures by human standards: only humans are malevolent, wild creatures do what they have to do to survive.

I found Stephi by accident several weeks ago and was astonished by her beauty. She has enriched my life. RIP dearest Stephi.

Image
Stephi cought my heart also aas i would start and end my day with her.if u are on FaceBook there is a page that is for her there that u can share anything of her u have. the page is called Stephi Memories and more.I started it for her as there are alote here in the U.S. that loved her and would chat about her at other nest.I hope to see u there. I love her and miss her more that words can ever say.thank u for your time
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Post by Yoko »

asteria wrote:I also want to see them back here but I decided for myself: if next spring the goshawk appears here at least one time I won't watch this cam.
Hello everyone!
I can understand Asteria, you are probably hyper-sensitive, very emotive. Me too and many of us. This is not a weakness but a strength. In French, we say: 'avoir du coeur' (have heart )
It is normal that we do not want to see dramas before your eyes. But there are also some very beautiful moments, memories, some great lessons of life.
I watch a lot of webcams and unfortunately sometimes it goes well and sometimes it goes wrong. Sometimes I'm happy sometimes I'm very sad and I cry.

This year 2012, I saw things that were going well and the things that ended with tragedies, deaths. In life, it's the same for humans. Friends, parents die, babies are born ...
The goshawk has killed Stephi. Animals kill others animals, and man kills every second an animal for food or other reasons. Men kill men too ... Paradise on Earth is not ... Where is he? Each its response.
Good day !
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Post by Trillian »

nobody with heart would like to shoot the gashawk
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Post by asteria »

Trillian wrote:nobody with heart would like to shoot the gashawk
Nobody with heart would like to shoot "Stephi's death" that is what you meant?
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Post by Brzoskwiniowa »

Welcome :)
My tribute for our Stephi :)

[youtube]?v=71qeLgBCkoQ[/youtube]
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Wil Muller
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Post by Wil Muller »

Brzoskwiniowa wrote:Welcome :)
My tribute for our Stephi :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71qeLgBC ... r_embedded
:wave: Welcome "Brzoskwiniowa"
:cry: :cry: :cry: Thank you for this beautiful compilation and the beautiful music. I have to see it once more because I had to cry.

Will you be so kind to let me know what orchestra this is and the title?
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Post by Dadel »

Sometimes I take a look here and everything is so empty and quitte.
And my haert is aging.? Correct me please, my English is so bad.
I mis her so much, but I am sure she makes the greatest flight and her most beatiful flight upstairs.
And she will live in peace forever. :cry: :cry:
A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
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Post by Dadel »

I am so glad guys, you have The same feelings like I have.
A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
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