Estonian LSE Nest Discussion 2012 ~ Tuuli & Remo

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asteria
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Re: Estonian LSE Nest Discussion 2012 ~ Tuuli & Remo

Post by asteria »

Dadel wrote:Other question ...When young LSE 50 % dies, what is the reason for that high mortalaty. Really bad and that is in a good year. Its shocking :shock: :cry:
Than in a bad year there will be no chicks who survive? :cry:
If it includes also killed second chicks(mortality without intervention is 100%) then the result is not bad. The situation with black storks is even worse: only one chick of five survives the first year.
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Post by Maxie4Paws »

thank you allso very much for telling me there was pic. of Remo with Tuuli.. what does a bow mean when they do it to eachother? I am new to this breed and i was just wondering. thank you. :faint:
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

I have not come across rituals of two LSE on the nest, still a lot to read out there. Display in spring is happening in the air, it must be a great sight, those two eagles flying together!
But I am sure the bowing to each other is some kind of greeting ritual, or courtship ritual.
Those who read German, there is an interesting book viewtopic.php?p=134482#p134482 about the LSE. It's available from Amazon.
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Post by aita »

Bea wrote: Hi aita,

had a lucky clickfinger today :shake:

Pine versus fir:
One more time google translator offers too much possibilities :rolleyes: .... it mixes up all together - the German "Tanne", "Fichte" and "Kiefer" can, as google translator says, all be said as "pine" or "fir" or what else ... :rolleyes:
But will better write fir, if it is the right word! :nod:

Now I take my books. Here around the nest are (harilik kuusk) – Norway spruce picea abies and their branches are in nest. (one dictionary says, a spruce other a spruce or fir and if i take fir then i must choos betveen 2 different tree species. With google translale I must to choose between 3 different tree species). :dunno:
i think spruce is right
(harilik mänd) –Scotch pine – pinus sylvestris - not in camera view
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Dadel wrote:Other question ...When young LSE 50 % dies, what is the reason for that high mortalaty. Really bad and that is in a good year. Its shocking :shock: :cry:
Than in a bad year there will be no chicks who survive? :cry:
One reason (as also stated by Dr. Madis in his report) for putting up web cams like this, IS to find out what happens to the young birds. Carsten Rohde informed us in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, a German federal state where LSE still breed, they lose about two chicks every year to goshawk attacks! Other reasons are bad weather, either too wet and cold, which the young birds don't survive, or too hot, not enough food, storms, attacks by other predators (on four legs or with two wings), human beings (or other animals) disturbing the nest, illness, poison (in prey for instance), illegal hunting, one parent dies of whatever reason (all of the above apply to them as well) ... there are many reasons for losing chicks before and after they fledge!
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Post by Starling »

That number is really sad. :slap:

Here are a few pics from pontu. I was so excited about Tuuli´s and Remo´s return that I had to went through every minute. :blush: :mrgreen:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Post by Felis silvestris »

asteria wrote: If it includes also killed second chicks(mortality without intervention is 100%) then the result is not bad. The situation with black storks is even worse: only one chick of five survives the first year.
Asteria, the 50% are after deducting the second chicks, otherwise the result would tend to 100%! I have tried to quickly find where I read it, but could not find it, as during the last days and weeks I have looked up so many sources. But for further reading about the problems in Brandenburg, another German federal state, I suggest this:

viewtopic.php?p=133605#p133605
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Post by Yoko »

Hello !
Beautiful pictures of Tulli and Remo back in their nest! THANK YOU.
This webcam sends a very precise image, accurate, with many details. It is a pleasure. Bravo to the technicians.
YES, I confirm: Google translation is very funny and sometimes imprecise but also very useful
Good day !
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Post by JSRD »

Hello!

This is my first post, but I have been watching Stefi's family since she was born. My question is, does anyone else see 3 new black things in the nest just right of the new green branch that was brought today? Could it be more voles or frogs? Those were not there before today.

Also, does anyone else think that maybe Tuuli and Remo are still looking for Stefi? They are still bringing green branches and voles or frogs to nest? :puzzled:
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Post by Starling »

Hello JSRD and welcome! :wave:
I don´t know what they are, but I don´t think they are voles or frogs. :puzzled:
Here´s a pic from yesterday and today (at 19.26), something was there before today, but also something new.
Image
Image
I believe (or hope!) Tuuli and Remo are preparing the nest for next season, not looking for Stephi anymore.
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Post by fraszka »

Bea, Starling - thanks for great pictures :bow:
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Post by Bea »

Hi JSRD :hi:

I think the "black things" are nothing new, they are old pellets that Stephi had spit out.

Tuuli was doing some nestwork today during she was here and probably that´s why the position of the pellets was changed .... :puzzled:
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Post by Dadel »

Thank you Felis.

I wonder why the second chick become killed in this terrible time? Why don,t they stop killing the second born?
tHE BIRD WLL DIE OUT.
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Post by Dadel »

Welkom JSRD :hi:
A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
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Post by Bea »

aita wrote: Now I take my books. Here around the nest are (harilik kuusk) – Norway spruce picea abies and their branches are in nest. (one dictionary says, a spruce other a spruce or fir and if i take fir then i must choos betveen 2 different tree species. With google translale I must to choose between 3 different tree species). :dunno:
i think spruce is right (harilik mänd) –Scotch pine – pinus sylvestris - not in camera view
Hi aita,

great - a botanical problem is solved, too Image

I googled pictures of spruce-picea abies and you´re surely right :thumbs:
Nature does nothing in vain (Aristoteles)
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Hello JSRD and welcome to the forum!

You mean

Image

I think Bea is right, there were some pellets in the nest after Stephi fell out and with the rain and the times passing they look a bit strange.

Dadel: the cainism - that's what the siblicide, the killing of the sibling - is called, is obligatory in these eagles. It has got nothing to do with no food or much food (Golden Eagles and some other birds have this when food is scarce), even if the mother would feed the second chick, during the first few days the older will attack the second chick. One method of "managing" the eagles is to take out either the second egg or one of the chicks and brood the egg/raise the chick until a certain time is over and bring back the chick to the nest. This method has one disadvantage, it is disturbing the nest and might be the reason for abandoning the nest completely. The eagles don't understand that their way of raising only one chick will ultimately wipe them off the face of the earth. So we have to try to help them if we can, by helping them to get the environment they need and make the people aware that shooting them or killing them is killing a very beautiful bird.
Watching these cams and help the specialists with our observations is one small step!
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Post by ame »

there were some strange bird calls from the vicinity of the nest at 18.59. there were first calls of a woodpecker (i think) but they were followed by three series of calls of someone which sounded like a bird of prey but not a schreiadler (shrieking eagle) but something more "musical"... :puzzled: maybe vainamoinen could have a listen to it? :help:


at the moment it is raining constantly and steadily in the forest.
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Post by ame »

i hear thunder...

and about the siblicide. i seems to me that it is a sort of insurance that the LSE parents will be able to raise as healthy a chick as possible in each year, taking into account the possibity of "bad" vole years. maybe on even good vole years there will not be enough food for to raise two eaglets to fledge.

Urmas wrote that this was supposed to be a poor vole year but i think we can all agree that there was plenty of food for one eaglet despite of this "poor vole year". maybe the fact that Tuuli laid only one egg this year was truely an expression of the "bad vole year" (like at the buzzards' nest the only one egg; the parents may have been immature,too. who knows.)


the sibling rivalry will take care of that the stronger (the best-fit) sibling will survive (if any). usually the older is the stronger one but sometimes the older may be sick and weaker and then the younger will be able to conquer.

last year the the first-laid egg had probably some problems: the fetus died during the incubation and the first egg did not hatch. the second egg produced Tormi who fledged as a healthy eaglet as far as could be seen from the camera (nobody knows what happened then). so the second egg made it sure that Tuuli and Remo got a fledgling last year.

on the whole i think that the strategy of one chick must be the best for the LSE as a species. otherwise their lives would not go this way. for other birds of prey it must be likewise i think. imagine: if all the (few) chicks or a even a large proportion of eaglets and other chicks of birds of prey would survive there would be far too many of them for any population density of any prey animal species to support them! there must be a strong selection in nature to make sure that only the fittest will survive (the cleverest and healthiest of them all).

there was thunder in the forest but it was rather lazy... i saw one lightning but wasn't recording so i missed it. :slap:
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Post by Maxie4Paws »

I hope that someone can help me as i had the report of what the doc. had said about Stephi and i can not find it. can someone help me with it of how to find it again.Thank you.
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Post by Dadel »

Ame and Sylves,

Than I don,nt understand why the Lse lay only 1 egg, why more eggs? Is that for IN CASE OFF?
And there is in Europe enough room for more eagles, and vole or birds are everywhere should I think.

And why should the second chick always be a week chick?I don,t understand that. The last one we saw , i believe in Micks nest does n,t look week, he only was the SECOND one.
I have so much to learn about the eagles. :book:
A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
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