Estonian LSE Nest Discussion 2012 ~ Tuuli & Remo

[ame]

after finding out what had happened to Steph i had to go out again but now i have read through all the posts... what a task: there were sooo many pages of them.

Stephi was a special little big eaglet who touched the souls of all of us by showing her will of living despite of hardships. i think that a shared sorrow will be a lighter sorrow to bear. it just takes some time to accept the loss...
... and the past days have shown that there have been many more us following Stephi life than we've known earlier! so welcome new members who have joined us just to tell that you too have enjoyed watching Stephi grow up in the loving care of Tuuli and Remo. i also wish that you'll stay along with us even though "our" baby is now gone to bird-heaven. there will be a new spring next year.

the camera is off now but it was on in the afternoon at about 3 pm when i opened it after a pause of three days, just to see an empty nest. first i thought Stephi had branched or even flown away but i soon found out what had happened... then i checked again at about 5 pm and cam was on: still no-one in sight.

the last Pontu picture today was taken at 20.37, here: http://pontu.eenet.ee/tooni/2012-08-08/ ... -20-37.jpg
the time was too early for Tuuli for to be in the nest then. she has come when it has been almost completely dark recently. - i can't remember did i post this video, but probably not... it was recorder on Sunday evening on Aug 5th. there Stephi has already layn down, sleeping when Tuuli arrives. then Stephi has a lot of things to tell to Tuuli (as she used to always have ) and she also shows Tuuli how much better she is in flying... that was their last night together.


i think that Remo and Tuuli will soon leave the forest and will not come to the nest. probably they are "thinking" that Stephi has fledged so independently that she didn't wait for parental guidance. they'll soon feel the urge to start their migration which would have happened anyway very soon.

in a way (on human standars) it seems that the LSE parents leave their chicks unguarded in the nest too early but it can't be a very bad strategy on the whole, from the point of view of the succes of the species: the LSE have survived and thrived that way. nature works in curious ways with different species. -i remember how i watched the LK camera at this very nest for the first time a few years ago. it was occupied by Donna and Padis then. Donna laid 6 eggs and one of them was broken when a third-wheel-BS who intruded the nest. when the remaining 5 storklets hatched it didn't take long before Donna-the-mother ate two of her own chicks. i remember how shocked and bewildered i was because it seemed to be so completely against any rules i thought i had learned of the evolution and therefore it seemed quite outrageous and unimaginable. it took a few weeks to see how crouded the nest became even with three storklets and then Donna's actions began to make some sence...

ps. i have some more videos in the Tube which i haven't posted. i'll make playlists and post the links here, but later... now the Sandman is calling...

[Maxie4Paws]

has the cam been shut off now for the rest of the year? i hope that its not as i love going there to just see.
I miss stephi so very much. and i thank all that have gone to facebook to her page. Stephi Memories and more as there u can share it all of her.
I hope that the cam will be up in the moring.
good night to all.

[scylla]

My heartfelt sympathy to all of you who have been devoted to Stephi since she was born.

My story:

I monitor the Loch Garten osprey nest so I don't have as much time for Stephi as I would like. On Tuesday I could only get pictures of a tail on a branch, and I saved them as "Stephi on branch" because I thought she must be branching. On Wednesday I recorded the nest for more than 7 hours, hoping I would catch her coming and going, but last night when I went through the recording I found only an empty nest all day. I went to my Gmail account to find the link to this forum, so that I could learn about how LSEs fledge - and to my horror I found in my emails a message from "Manu" telling me of Stephi's fate. What a terrible shock, I so loved that beautiful bird.

There has been so much tragedy this year: in the UK the "evil" weather has caused many failed nests and lost chicks - on the Loch Garten nest a chick was tormented and killed by its sisters because food was short; at Dyfi 2 chicks died from lack of food and the other, as you have already been told, was revived by human intervention (he has thrived and will soon migrate to west Africa).

I only started following raptors at the beginning of last season, which was a happy one, but this season has brought much sadness and taught me not to judge wild creatures by human standards: only humans are malevolent, wild creatures do what they have to do to survive.

I found Stephi by accident several weeks ago and was astonished by her beauty. She has enriched my life. RIP dearest Stephi.

[loveofnature-ohio-us]

I still wonder if it was Tuuli's cries that I heard below the nest about 30 minutes after Stephi fell. I'm wondering if Stephi even cried out at all once on the ground. I wish that I could get the exact minutes after she fell until the cries were heard. So very sad to even talk about it...I wish so bad that it hadn't happened.

I head the cries also. I saw it happen and wish I hadn't. I thought the loud cries were much less than 30 minutes. I am having a terrible time getting over this. I feel so bad for Stephi. I do remember that as soon as Stephi fell, there was no sound at all. It happened so fast, at first I thought she fledged. Then I knew she wouldn't fledge with her wings spread flat out on the nest, and then slide out. Then I realized she went over the edge. I'm sorry, I'm no longer a fan of a hawk. They are so aggressive. How do I let go of these feelings of first deep sorrow, and now anger. It just won't go away. I feel so bad. I love you Stephi.

[J. B. Maberry]

:peek: Where is possible to see the first attack?
Thanks

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=379&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=2480don't have the video, but here's where the discussions and photos start

[Starling]

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=379&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=2480don't have the video, but here's where the discussions and photos start

Here is the video too: http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/14084

[loveofnature-ohio-us]

Here is the video too: http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/14084

I noticed the goshawk almost pulled Stephi over the back edge of the nest during the original attack. She pulled herself back in. That must have been its plan both times.

[MarshaMay]

I head the cries also. I saw it happen and wish I hadn't. I thought the loud cries were much less than 30 minutes. I am having a terrible time getting over this. I feel so bad for Stephi. I do remember that as soon as Stephi fell, there was no sound at all. It happened so fast, at first I thought she fledged. Then I knew she wouldn't fledge with her wings spread flat out on the nest, and then slide out. Then I realized she went over the edge. I'm sorry, I'm no longer a fan of a hawk. They are so aggressive. How do I let go of these feelings of first deep sorrow, and now anger. It just won't go away. I feel so bad. I love you Stephi.

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, commenting on your comment, but I agree with you. I was watching both times the Goshawk attacked and I just don't like Goshawks now. It was just so vicious and there's no way it needed that big of a bird, poor little Stephi. It seems like it just enjoyed itself too much. I think of all she could have been, such a cute and loving eaglet. I think it's a feeling of helplessness, nothing we could do, just very sad.

[Angi]

Yes, it's very sad. :-( But I cannot blame the goshawk. I's not a murderer, it's only an animal that follows its instincts.

[m3aulaul]

[lukris]

... and the past days have shown that there have been many more us following Stephi life than we've known earlier! so welcome new members who have joined us just to tell that you too have enjoyed watching Stephi grow up in the loving care of Tuuli and Remo. i also wish that you'll stay along with us even though "our" baby is now gone to bird-heaven. there will be a new spring next year.

Thank you, I am glad to be a part of such a great community

[lukris]

[asteria]

I noticed the goshawk almost pulled Stephi over the back edge of the nest during the original attack. She pulled herself back in. That must have been its plan both times.

The second time he attacked Stephi from the back while she prepared to the attack from the right side of the nest. She desperately called for help while she was alive, but the parents didn't come, that is the most terrible thing. I remember even Grieta also didn't defend her little 9 day old eaglet a year ago, maybe it is typical for LSE?

Yesterday I opened the last year forum and read about the same day a year ago. I suddenly realized that when Remo appeared in the nest he already knew that Stephi was killed. Because a year ago he also brought a frog and didn't see Tormi in the nest, he didn't leave. He stayed in the nest for a long time and called Tormi. This year he just put a frog and flew away.

I don't think the camera is closed, must be problems with batteries.

[Granny]

Dear friends! Is it quite impossible for you to understand and approve this as quite an ordinary and natural phenomenon? This is no Disney film, Stephi was NOT A PET, she was a wild bird, beautiful and splendid, whose possibilities to stay alive are percentually very limited, like every creature in the nature. We have here privilege to see a teeny-weeny glimpse of how the Nature works. There was nothing odd or exceptional in the behavior of the goshawk. He/she was not mean or evil or “aggressive”. Goshawks occasionally kill larger animals, up to the size of geese, raccons, foxes and large hares, any of which can be more than twice their own weight. The Goshawk is likely a significant predator of other raptors. Aren’t all the creatures of the Nature equal??!! You don’t mourn over the little bird or mole Stephi ate for lunch?? Probably they were mothers, whose babies starved to death in their nests. The fish that an osprey tears to shreds alive, feels terrible pain. Don’t they all deserve aureola??
If you want to know (you must know it already) who is the only barbarian, savage, brute an criminal creature in this world, go to YouTube and watch the 1½ hours film EARTHLINGS by Shaun Monson.
I know my comment may rise a storm of protest but welcome, I can handle it.

[asteria]

Dear friends! Is it quite impossible for you to understand and approve this as quite an ordinary and natural phenomenon? This is no Disney film, Stephi was NOT A PET, she was a wild bird, beautiful and splendid, whose possibilities to stay alive are percentually very limited, like every creature in the nature. We have here privilege to see a teeny-weeny glimpse of how the Nature works. There was nothing odd or exceptional in the behavior of the goshawk. He/she was not mean or evil or “aggressive”. Goshawks occasionally kill larger animals, up to the size of geese, raccons, foxes and large hares, any of which can be more than twice their own weight. The Goshawk is likely a significant predator of other raptors. Aren’t all the creatures of the Nature equal??!! You don’t mourn over the little bird or mole Stephi ate for lunch?? Probably they were mothers, whose babies starved to death in their nests. The fish that an osprey tears to shreds alive, feels terrible pain. Don’t they all deserve aureola??
If you want to know (you must know it already) who is the only barbarian, savage, brute an criminal creature in this world, go to YouTube and watch the 1½ hours film EARTHLINGS by Shaun Monson.
I know my comment may rise a storm of protest but welcome, I can handle it.

Yes, Granny, the goshawk was an enemy and he killed the eaglet in that unequal fight. But how comes the parents left her in trouble? Tuuli and Remo did attack poor Padis but did nothing to defend Stephi! Not a single try! Tuuli left the nest at 4.51 a.m. and was off for 17 hours!

[Amsel67]

i do understand, that you all are so sad, as i am.

But pleeeeeeease dont blame it on the hawk. It is not his "fault". Someone said: if we would have watched the hawk nest, and a LSE would kill a baby of them, we would also be so sad, and blame it on the LSE. That is not ok.

You can be sad, but you cannot blame it on the hunting animals.
Or do you want to blame all the butchers that kill our cows and pigs, so we can eat meat??? We dont kill them ourselves, but it is the same. Think about, if all the farmers would be sad, when their cows go to the butchers, and therefore they would stop selling their cows, nobody would be able to eat meat.

And how many animals are killed by humans without the need for food.

We HAVE TO see, that all the animals need something to eat, and all predators eat meat, only. So that means, they HAVE TO kill another animal to survive.

What those tragedies show us, that we are feeling part of nature and with that feeling we should care for our earth, save it as good as we can.

Love ALL creatures!!! They are all here for a special purpose.

Of course, I also loved Stephi, because it is my favorite nest, my first raptor nest. I even spread the link for American /Australian cam viewers. And there will be a new chance next season.

[Starling]

Yes, Granny, the goshawk was an enemy and he killed the eaglet. But how comes the parents left her in trouble? Tuuli and Remo did attack poor Padis but did nothing to defend Stephi! Not a single try!

We don´t have any idea where the parents were when the goshawk attacked Stephi. They could have been many kilometres away from the nest and not able to hear or know anything.

I think there´s no need to "blame" anybody. This is nature (and it can be cruel sometimes)!

[asteria]

We don´t have any idea where the parents were when the goshawk attacked Stephi. They could have been many kilometres away from the nest and not able to hear or know anything.

With Tormi they always were somewhere nearby and Tuuli didn't leave the nest for 15 hours.

[Amsel67]

Yes, Granny, the goshawk was an enemy and he killed the eaglet in that unequal fight. But how comes the parents left her in trouble? Tuuli and Remo did attack poor Padis but did nothing to defend Stephi! Not a single try! Tuuli left the nest before 6 a.m. and was off for 15 hours!

Granny: thank you so much for writing this. We must have had the same thought in the same moments!

asteria: to me it seems, you dont have an idea of how nature works. The parents were on their ways to find food, which is not easy nowadays, they didnt hear their eaglet, otherwise they would have helped. And if even not, ..they were the teachers for their baby, it has to learn to defend itself. But parents are not bad, like the goshawk is not bad. Please dont spread it in the way you do, just because you are sad and dissapointed, dont arouse hatred! You have to make your peace with it, it is nature, it is not a thing, you can built for own account.

[asteria]

asteria: to me it seems, you dont have an idea of how nature works. The parents were on their ways to find food, which is not easy nowadays, they didnt hear their eaglet, otherwise they would have helped. And if even not, ..they were the teachers for their baby, it has to learn to defend itself. But parents are not bad, like the goshawk is not bad. Please dont spread it in the way you do, just because you are sad and dissapointed, dont arouse hatred! You have to make your peace with it, it is nature, it is not a thing, you can built for own account.

Did I ever call them "bad"? It were your words and your interpretation, not mine! I am only talking about the facts and express my opinion even if somebody dislikes it. Or do you think that there are only two views: your own and wrong?

It was nature here four years ago when Donna killed and ate two chicks(and it is much worse than to be killed in fight) but it was also nature when Tiit and Tiina supported little Neli and Tiit fed her even when other storklets flew away! So even the same kind of birds can behave in a different way. And yes, open the pages about Tormi and compare how it was a year ago and now, it really differs a lot. Maybe Tuuli thought if it was OK last year she could be more careless this time, I don't know. I am trying to understand it.