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 Post subject: Re: Osprey-related Discussion.
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 4:59 pm 
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:D :D :D Gitana, we do have such cam in the winter:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=311

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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 5:34 pm 
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Will someone PLEASE move that stick?? :rant:


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 5:37 pm 
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oh, poor eaglets! without an umbrella. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 5:43 pm 
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Hi :wave: First time/long time here. My daughter and I have been having so much fun :D watching Nori grow up :bounce:

Thank you for the forum, the webcam, and the education - we are looking forward to watching his/her first flight!!

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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 6:04 pm 
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Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 4:53 am
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Location: Brazil
Hello. :wave:
Is the first time I watch a nest of ospreys. I'm in love. :loveshower:
There are three years ago I started to follow the nest of eagles Hornby Island. Mom and Dad Hornby have been and are a first passion. I wish I had followed since the beginning of the season, here, but next year will be here again. Somebody, please, could take this stick of the nest? :puzzled: :innocent:
I live in Brazil. Away from you, isn't it?
I was very saddened by the loss of Stefi, but Nature write her own script. :cry:
Have a great day you all ( here is 01:30 PM).


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 Post subject: Re: Osprey-related Discussion.
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 6:24 pm 
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will(y) wrote:
First problem of this discussion is that many people love to see these wonderful ospreys but don't know really much about them and the scientifc sense (and requirements) of the program (me too!). The second problem I see, is that many people who watch the cams are humanizing the birds. Questions (for example) like "would you be happy to have such a backpack everytime with you" are comparing animals with humans.

For me as an osprey-amateur with a negligible knowledge about this birds it wasn't a nice image to see Piret with that technical device on her back, and I asked myself if that must have been.

But I would never be questioning the actions of Urmas and his colleagues, because they are real experts and I know nearly nothing about ospreys, marking birds or the advantage of being able to track the migration-routes.

How it's been said before, Estonia is a forerunner in the world in the question of marking birds (not at least in person of Urmas who often shares his experiences with interested organisations in other countries), and you can see the differences between the earlier used transmitters and the transmitter which one he used for Piret. There is no doubt that they are doing everthing to secure this animals and not to harm them.

The humanizing of "our" birds came automatically - we gave them names, followed their growing, we were hoping for little Nori, mourning about bad big sister Elo and so on.

We lost our hearts for them. But we've more and more forgotten, that they are animals who have to survive in the wilderness. The sad incident with Stephi yesterday has shown us again that nature can be cruel. Some reactions after her death have shown, that this fact is lost out of our eyes.

I thougt about in which way I would have reacted if that would have happened to Nori. Surely sad, but that's the part we have to accept - that's nature. Ospreys are killing fishes and these arrive sometimes very vital at the nest. I bet these fishes aren't too happy about that...

They are not "our" birds, they are ospreys, wonderful birds, who have to face various dangerous situations.
And in order to protect them it might be necessary to track some of them, using transmitters.

But these are only some thougts of an osprey-amateur... :wave:

will(y) :wave: : I'm agree with you to 100%, thanks for this post...


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 6:38 pm 
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Location: Asturias, Spain
Image

ELO: Aawww c'mon brother... can I have a little?

NORI: No.

ELO: Please?

NORI: No.

ELO: Pretty please?

NORI: *munch* I said no *munch* *swallows* *munch*

ELO: Pretty please with sugar on top?

UNO: Oh, shut up already...

NORI: Jus't don't leave me alone and return only when dad delivers a fish!! :rant:


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 7:03 pm 
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Thank you for all the nice pictures and videos and for sharing your observations today!

And hello and welcome to the forum, new members :wave:


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 7:14 pm 
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Nori: "morgen morgen nur nicht heute..."


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 7:24 pm 
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Yiki wrote:
I believe I read somewhere, that owners of fish farms are entitled to some kind of compensation if they lose a lot of fish to ospreys and other birds. Does anybody know how they determine whether they're eligible for compensation or not?


Hi Yiki, I don´t know if your question is still current. Yes, according to Urmas, every fishpond owner can apply for compensation.

There is an interesting article by Joosep Tuvi and Ülo Väli about this topic:

The impact of the White-tailed Eagle Haliaeetus albicilla and the Osprey Pandion haliaetus on Estonian Common Carp Cyprinus carpio production: How large is the economic loss?

"Protected bird species have been suspected to be a cause of a significant economic loss at Estonian fish farms, but its extent has remained unexplored. We counted the number of White-tailed Eagles and Ospreys, and the quantity of fish they take, and analysed the economic loss in five carp farms in 2001/2004."


It might be that you find some answers here.
PDF available at Estonian Academy Publishers: http://www.kirj.ee/11119/


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 Post subject: Re: Osprey-related Discussion.
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 7:35 pm 
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juta wrote:
:D :D :D Gitana, we do have such cam in the winter:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=311


Fantastic! Harmless cute birds! Didn't see any broiler yet, but these will do fine! :2thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Osprey-related Discussion.
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 7:42 pm 
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Not that harmless: bigger birds often chase away the smaller ones from there.


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 8:08 pm 
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Calabrialu wrote:
Hello. :wave:
Is the first time I watch a nest of ospreys. I'm in love. :loveshower:


Hi! I am new here in forum, but I regularly follow all cameras linked on lloduskalener :bounce: And I must say, I feel very attached to every single one of the birds of prey. :chick:
The loss of Stephi was devastating, I am still not over it, although I know, that that is the nature of the nature.

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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 8:23 pm 
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Lukris, hello, thank you for your welcome. All nests that I follow, the birds become part of my day to day. We want all these little birds grow healthy and should be flying free like all birds. :bounce:
:D A big hug


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 9:37 pm 
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Wow, thanks for your answers, Maertha and Kapa. Going to read that article now. :)


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 9:48 pm 
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Yiki wrote:
Wow, thanks for your answers, Maertha and Kapa. Going to read that article now. :)


You´re welcome, Yiki.


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 10:01 pm 
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And again rain started for poor lonely Nori :-(((((

By the way: Can anybody tell me, why there's still light at the horizont (22:57 EEST)? Usually it's already dark (black monitor) at this time :puzzled:

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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 10:11 pm 
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Cara wrote:
Can anybody tell me, why there's still light at the horizont (22:57 EEST)? Usually it's already dark (black monitor) at this time :puzzled:


Hi Cara. At the moment I can´t see a light, but there´s a military ground - maybe some exercises.


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 Post subject: Re: Osprey-related Discussion.
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 10:27 pm 
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NancyM wrote:
Felis silvestris wrote:
Here it is fish, at the other eagle cams it is moles, voles, birds, even weasels and other sometimes "cute" animals.

and frogs ... usually I cannot really tell what the other animals are so it is a tiny bit easier - but when I can see a mole,for example, clearly, then .... we need another good bird feeder cam to watch birds that eat seeds.


will(y) wrote:
The second problem I see, is that many people who watch the cams are humanizing the birds. .... .... The humanizing of "our" birds came automatically - we gave them names, followed their growing, we were hoping for little Nori, mourning about bad big sister Elo and so on.

I was thinking about this a bit and I realized that even if we did not name the birds that we watch, we would still become attached to them - even if chicks are given numbers, or no designation at all, after watching and following their growth, it is probably inevitable that they steal our hearts. I find this a good thing (although it can be very painful) - we are learning and appreciating more about the difficult life of birds.


Jasmijntje wrote:
So....what did you find of wat the experts think about it? (so far!!!)
b.t.w is it wrong to have an other opinion, we have freedom of speech don't we?

Jasmijntje, of course we can each have our own opinion ~ it would be a dull world if we all thought alike.

I had read that article some time ago, and it is what started to concern me over transmitters - I posted earlier that I am of "two minds" about them. There have been good reports about information learned and upsetting reports about potential interference with the birds' reproductive behaviors.

Here is a recent article from Audubon Society, in case you have not seen it. (just for more information, no hidden message from me in posting this). http://www.audubonmagazine.org/articles ... ns-secrets


Thanks for your reaction Nancy.
I read a big peace of the article( do the rest of it later, it was a long day) and found this:

"That we know about this migratory drama at all, much less in such extraordinary detail, is thanks to a small satellite transmitter nestled among the feathers on the whimbrel’s back—part of a transformation in wildlife tracking that is making it possible for scientists to understand the movements of migratory animals"

Okay, we 'understands the movements' of the bird and than what???
Did the bird feel better because we know that?
Can we prevent storms and/or hurricanes because of that?
Sorry I am a bit synical, but what is the use of knowing that, exept the satisfaction of our curiosity?
We can't change the wind or rain, we can't make migration less difficault for them (or easyer)
I realy don't understand the need to torture a bird for such little information do you?
Okay, maybee I'm also a bit (or a lot) sensitive about how to treat animals, but if the birds have no benefit from their 'backpack' I say no to such things, it makes me sad.

@ sorry for my poor English, I wanted to say so much more and other things also, but it's a long time ago I wrote in English, so I can't do it (only in my own language, or talking)


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 Post subject: Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012
PostPosted: August 8th, 2012, 10:29 pm 
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So glad to see Nori have dinner! She looked so miserable, so alone in the rain.

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