DISCUSSION ESTLAT Osprey Nest 1 Madis & Piret ~ 2012

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Birdie
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Re: ESTLAT Osprey Nest Webcam Discussion 2012

Post by Birdie »

Kukelke wrote: I could be wrong, but can the behaviour you describe maybe have something to do with camouflage, so the chicks and the nest are blurred into one 'unit' which would make it more difficult for predators to zoom in on 1 chick and grab it? Compare it to the stripes of zebras which have the same purpose; to blur out the individual and make it look like a part of a larger unit.

Or it could be because bark and mosses and lichens can contain certain antiseptics which help the ospreys to get rid of nasty bugs and fungi and such. To keep the nest clean and proper with other words. After all we like fresh sheets on our beds too, without any bedbugs, and I bet birds do too.
I wonder if the wood changes its color each day a few times? I dont think so.
I by myself have not the slightest idea why Piret moves branches so often. And the chicks imitate her behaviour?
:puzzled:

Edit: I think I know what you mean, the light changes the color of the wood, ok, but this happens nearly a hundret times a day!
Nori S7, Uno S8, Elo S9
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Post by Wisteria »

Kukelke wrote:Btw, something to look forward to:

Today the only surviving chick from the Dyfi Osprey Project in Wales (the one who was saved from starvation by human intervention after the worst summer storm in living memory) made his first solo flight at the age of 53 days, after he had been practising on the nest the last few days.

More info and videos about his flight here: http://www.dyfiospreyproject.com/blog/2 ... ulan-flies


When you see him training on the nest, and needing all available space, imagine how our 3 chicks will be training in a week or two, three. They need a nest at least 3 sizes bigger than the current nest. :mrgreen:
And I love the way he 'lands' on the nest again, which looks rather like a controlled crash. :laugh:

That video was beautiful. I'm falling in love with ospreys!

and yes, I think that when "our" three start flying it will be like the three stooges in the nest. :laugh:
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Post by Wisteria »

Birdie wrote: I wonder if the wood changes its color each day a few times? I dont think so.
I by myself have not the slightest idea why Piret moves branches so often. And the chicks imitate her behaviour?
:puzzled:

Edit: I think I know what you mean, the light changes the color of the wood, ok, but this happens nearly a hundret times a day!
I mean the light doesn't change the wood itself, but different lighting conditions affect the way we perceive the colors, like how a photographer uses different lighting effects - this doesn't change the color of his subject, but it changes the way they look in the photographs.

Thanks for the input, my fine feathered friends! (I think that's a Tweety Bird quote) :D
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Post by Birdie »

I mean the light doesn't change the wood itself, but different lighting conditions affect the way we perceive the colors, like how a photographer uses different lighting effects - this doesn't change the color of his subject, but it changes the way they look in the photographs.

Thanks for the input, my fine feathered friends! (I think that's a Tweety Bird quote) :D
For sure, I know this! I have studied about colors an photographie.
I´m sure ospreys know instingtively how to camouflage themselves, but I dont think it has to do with the colors of their direct enviroment.
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Post by snApe1118 »

Kukelke wrote:Btw, something to look forward to:

Today the only surviving chick from the Dyfi Osprey Project in Wales (the one who was saved from starvation by human intervention after the worst summer storm in living memory) made his first solo flight at the age of 53 days, after he had been practising on the nest the last few days.

More info and videos about his flight here: http://www.dyfiospreyproject.com/blog/2 ... ulan-flies


When you see him training on the nest, and needing all available space, imagine how our 3 chicks will be training in a week or two, three. They need a nest at least 3 sizes bigger than the current nest. :mrgreen:
And I love the way he 'lands' on the nest again, which looks rather like a controlled crash. :laugh:
This is ONE osprey. How will THAT work for three ospreys simultaneously? :shock:
Nori S7, Uno S8, Elo S9
Piret S0 and the father Madis

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Post by meierlein »

snApe1118 wrote:
This is ONE osprey. How will THAT work for three ospreys simultaneously? :shock:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
They already learned to be a good team ^^

:headroll:
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Post by C.LynnDunn »

Hello all! I thought I would share with you this youtube of our Decorah Bald eagles. We had 3 eaglets, this video is of Mom and the 3 (D12, D13 and D14) on the nest during a storm. Usually they lay low, but they they just couldn't do it for very long! It is really funny, Mom Decorah gets wing-whacked so many times! This will give you an idea of wingersizing and hovering with three in the nest!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUQ0jrKAA8
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Post by maertha »

C.LynnDunn wrote:Hello all! I thought I would share with you this youtube of our Decorah Bald eagles. We had 3 eaglets, this video is of Mom and the 3 (D12, D13 and D14) on the nest during a storm. Usually they lay low, but they they just couldn't do it for very long! It is really funny, Mom Decorah gets wing-whacked so many times! This will give you an idea of wingersizing and hovering with three in the nest!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUQ0jrKAA8
Hello C.LynnDunn, welcome, and thank you for sharing the video! Here at Looduskalender are many Bald Eagle fans :D . Admin Jo provided an own place for them. Maybe you want to post the clip also at this thread? viewtopic.php?f=11&t=278
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Post by pinkish »

meierlein wrote::banghead:
oh PIRET, let the Baby eat alone - it is hungry enough to manage that :rolleyes:

:bash:
Do you think they are already up to eat on their own? :chick:
...goodnight poor little thing
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Post by maertha »

Wisteria wrote::hi:

I'm probably not the first to realize this, but I've noticed that Piret sometimes strips the bark off the smaller branches in the nest , exposing the wood below, and sometimes the wood shows where the branch was broken.

I think the color of this exposed and/or stripped wood is the exact same color as the bronze coloration on the adults and the chicks. It matches in all light conditions and even in the rain. I know they have a limited spectrum that can be discerned, so I wonder if there's more to this coloration, maybe it's in their range or they see it another way, like some prey of other birds leave a scat trail that' only discerned by their predators.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, because I'm a writer and I do a lot of reseach before I begin, and also very curious about evolutional adaptation (if that's what this is) and so this matching colors amazes me. Maybe someone knows about this and/or could steer me to the right place to get more info.

Or is this not a discussion to have in this thread? I'm not sure now. If not, can anyone steer me to a good place to find out about the cloration.
I thought something similar about the colour, Wistera. It´s a perfect camouflage - see the picture below.

Image

More info: This place of the forum may be helpful viewtopic.php?f=46&t=234
Check especially GRIN Bibliography and Raptor Information System
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Post by andi7 »

Had to spend a day without internet. Thank you all for the pictures of today.
b.h-p wrote: You´re right Nancy - no reason to blame Elo for being what he/she is! A very young osprey.

To mix human feelings into observations of our Osprey family are not good for anything.

And now it´s final :offtobed: have a good watch :hi:
I was only joking. I do know that Elo is driven by instinct. Maybe he/she needs this extra food at this point of growth more than his/her siblings. Could it be that Elo is the opposite gender? Nice to see Nori getting enough food today.

If snApe1118 make a video, he will also have to stick to the terms of copyright on YouTube cause some videos are hosted there.

Concerning Piret's nest decoration: All osprey nests have different appearance and construction. Many female ospreys carry sticks and branches to the nest although the chicks are able to fly like Ulla in the Latvian nest. Last week the storm blow off some branches of the rim. So I thought that Piret was eager to reconstruct that parts, but in the next days she only got some sticks now and then as usual. Two weeks ago I assumed she would build a fence for the chicks not to fall out of the nest. Now Elo and Uno could easily get to the edge but avoid that by instinct. They sense objects in the air at some distance like Madis and enemy birds, so they must be able to realize the ground is deep under the nest. So maybe all this branch moving is only a lesson for the chicks so that they could build a nest for themselves in the next years.
pinkish wrote: Do you think they are already up to eat on their own? :chick:
I think Piret avoid to feed the intestines and organs to the chicks. Uno tried to eat some intestines but he couldn't manage it. These parts are hard to swallow. Piret also ate the bigger parts she ripped off the fish for herself. Today at the morning I saw that Uno grapped some large pieces and was able to swallow. I think it begins with shielding the prey like the LSE to protect it against siblings and parents and in a few days they will learn how to open a living fish.
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Post by NancyM »

:wave: andi7

Good point about the branches .... I think Wisteria was wondering why Piret peels the bark off, exposing the wood underneath.
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Post by andi7 »

The camouflage idea is very interesting. :bow: The disguise gets even better when the chicks all develop the brown plumage with yellow-white fringes which match the brown parts of the wood. When the chicks had only down-feathers the sticks and branches with the grey-green lichen fitted perfectly to the grey-white plumage.

Good night. Have to catch up some sleep. :offtobed:
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Post by b.h-p »

snApe1118 wrote:
............But to ask everyone individually... :shock: that's difficult with my poor english knowledge. To keep the overview who created the video or picture I use. Image

Too bad :cry:
I would have liked to create a video. I'm sure it would have be really nice.

.....................
I have no personal videos from the nestconstruction and the eggs in the nest.

Perhaps there is still a possibility that I may make a video Image
:hi: snApe1118

The best advice I can give you is to continue looking at this cam. and visit forum for the rest of this season and learn more about these birds.

Then you´ll be well prepared for the season when it starts next year and with more knowledge you can make a much better video - and also out of the material you have provided by yourself (which is a greater joy too).

Then you do not have a need for permission from anyone either, just have to credit Looduskalender or/and cam.

And first of all you´ll have much more heart in your project and get a much better result.

Good luck :wave:
Eagles better know how to live their lifes than humans do on their behalf

the WtE database at LK created by the forumist Maertha is a goldmine of knowledge and news
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Post by macdoum »

Thanks to Nancy for the timely reminder about the very few rules on this forum;

Eagle Club members take note of our observations, opinions, screen shots and videos. From this source, they are able to create articles for Looduskalender, Press and TV and thereby educate the greater public about the needs of the natural world. The technical information they acquire via our forum posts is valuable to the biologists as little is yet known, for example, about Black Storks.The struggle to maintain breeding and feeding environments for birds and animals, versus the activities of commercial and private interests is an unending battle.

It is right to draw everyone's attention to the fact that all Eagle Club members, forestry workers, forum workers and anyone connected with Looduskalender, ARE ALL VOLUNTEERS. They give their time freely, when they can, allowing for the demands of work and home life. We and Estonia's natural world benefit from their generosity.
You can read the entire article here;
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17

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Post by macdoum »

Wisteria wrote::hi:

I'm probably not the first to realize this, but I've noticed that Piret sometimes strips the bark off the smaller branches in the nest , exposing the wood below, and sometimes the wood shows where the branch was broken.

I think the color of this exposed and/or stripped wood is the exact same color as the bronze coloration on the adults and the chicks. It matches in all light conditions and even in the rain. I know they have a limited spectrum that can be discerned, so I wonder if there's more to this coloration, maybe it's in their range or they see it another way, like some prey of other birds leave a scat trail that' only discerned by their predators.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, because I'm a writer and I do a lot of reseach before I begin, and also very curious about evolutional adaptation (if that's what this is) and so this matching colors amazes me. Maybe someone knows about this and/or could steer me to the right place to get more info.

Or is this not a discussion to have in this thread? I'm not sure now. If not, can anyone steer me to a good place to find out about the cloration.
Maertha commented (somewhere :puzzled: ) about possible medical uses of bark and branches brought to the nests. When she is here she can help you.
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Post by Wisteria »

maertha wrote: I thought something similar about the colour, Wistera. It´s a perfect camouflage - see the picture below.
...

More info: This place of the forum may be helpful viewtopic.php?f=46&t=234
Check especially GRIN Bibliography and Raptor Information System

Thanks maertha! Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

I will check that link out. So many helpful posts - what a great thread this is!

:2thumbsup:
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Post by Wisteria »

NancyM wrote::wave: andi7

Good point about the branches .... I think Wisteria was wondering why Piret peels the bark off, exposing the wood underneath.
Yes, NancyM, but not only that. I was also thinking about natural selection and how it's probably not a coincidence that that Estonian forest has ended up as home to Ospreys who have plumage the same color as the branches/wood. It just seems so wonderful, if so, and a great example of natural selection.

I looked at a couple other bird cams and to my eye there is a subtle variation depending on where the Ospreys nest.

The info that some of the nest material is also harmful to pests is maybe another adaptation?

:chick:
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Post by alice44 »

This discussion points out how impressive the Osprey chick camouflage is. I am an old lady but still I was practically jumping up and down in front of family trying to explain how well they are hidden in plain sight. Until I showed them images, they did not get it.

I think how well the Osprey chicks blend with their nests, also suggests that at some point Osprey chicks must have suffered depredation from other birds of prey. They would not look so much like their nest materials if it had not been helpful.
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Post by Wisteria »

alice44 wrote:This discussion points out how impressive the Osprey chick camouflage is. I am an old lady but still I was practically jumping up and down in front of family trying to explain how well they are hidden in plain sight. Until I showed them images, they did not get it.

I think how well the Osprey chicks blend with their nests, also suggests that at some point Osprey chicks must have suffered depredation from other birds of prey. They would not look so much like their nest materials if it had not been helpful.

Hi alice44 I'm the same way, I dragged my son and his girlfriend to the computer to show them what I was talking about (and also how big the chicks looked on the day they got ringed).

Good point about the depredation. I wonder if anyone has made a study of historic bird populations in the area. The coloration might have happened at a relatively recent time.

It would be interesting to figure out which predators were givng the ospreys such a hard time.
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