DISCUSSION ESTLAT Osprey Nest 1 Madis & Piret ~ 2012

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meierlein
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Re: Osprey-related Discussion.

Post by meierlein »

Birdie wrote:Goodness! I've been a member of NABU and Greenpeace since years, and be sure I know a lot about (not all, for sure :mrgreen: ) but never in my life all energy companies in Germany working together for ospreys or any other kind of wildlife!!

are you German?

than you are able to read this actual information?


http://www.pressebox.de/pressemeldungen ... xid/520952


:wave:


http://www.enviam-welt.de/welt/regional ... z/829.html



http://www.sich-verlag.de/diverse%20Dat ... asecki.pdf



http://www.moz.de/artikel-ansicht/dg/0/1/1026122



http://www.sielmann-stiftung.de/de/proj ... ufwind.php


:wave:
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IKat
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Post by IKat »

Kukelke wrote: Until recently, only a couple of months ago, I didn't know much more about these birds other than that they are raptors specialised in hunting for fish, and that a military tilt-rotor plane is called after them (the V-22 Osprey). I even thought, because of their Dutch name "visarend" (which translates as "fish eagle"), that ospreys were true eagles, and would be closely related to the "zeearend" (litt: "sea eagle" - the Dutch word for white tailed eagle), which isn't the case at all. They form their own family, is one of the first things I learned, and since I became fascinated and wanted to learn more, I started to dig up any information I could lay my hands upon, also about projects in North America.
Myself I'm watching the Hellgate osprey cam at the University of Missoula, Montana too, mainly to compare behaviour of the chicks, since those are only slightly younger (a few days) than our Estonian chicks.
http://www.allaboutbirds.org/page.aspx?pid=2487

But maybe we shouldn't compare them, since North American ospreys (Pandion haliaetus carolinensis) are of another subspecies than European ospreys (the nominate Pandion haliaetus haliaetus), albeit the differences are small; the North American ospreys are slightly larger, darker bodied and have a paler breast. Perhaps there are also differences in migration processes and behaviour between the two subspecies? Yet again, only transmitters would be able to give us answers.

And yes, I want once again express my appreciation to Urmas and friends from the Eagle Club for all the great work they are doing.



I must confess that until a few days ago I didn't know about the V-22 Osprey. The Hellgate ospreys are amazing in the fact they seem to not notice they are in the very midst of civilization. Really enjoy watching them also. Wonder tho' when the banding (ringing) of the Hellgate nestlings took place the camera was turned off?....Suppose they have their reasons. The Hellgate "kids" seem to be doing just fine in their unusual living area....they seem not to notice all the traffic and people. It amazes me how some are so adaptable.....
S7-Nori-F?
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landscape as it was before." ~ Robert Lynd
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Post by Birdie »

Yehaw Kukelke, we all now why :whistling:

Folks :offtobed:

:mrgreen:
Nori S7, Uno S8, Elo S9
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Post by Jo UK »

The Osprey nest Webcam Discussion is closed while we move or remove some posts that were too far off-topic and some very unwelcome posts.

Personal attacks on members are not tolerated here, as already stated in the Welcome and Introduction
viewforum.php?f=7

When tempers have cooled and the topic is sorted out, it will be unlocked and normal nest discussion can resume.

We have created this discussion topic for other than webcam posts.
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Post by alice44 »

I think I have read most (hopefully all, but I might have missed some) of this thread and I want to thank everyone for participating and for being so informative. I have read about concerns and queries I had not thought about.

And thank you Kukelke for telling the North American Ospreys are different. I simply had not thought to look into that. The nest in my hometown was empty this year and I have not heard them calling above my house. :cry: No idea why, but I worry there are too many people or not enough fish on the river.

Because I think we have so much to learn I think the ugliness of the transmitters needs to be tolerated so we can gather information. As Africa develops more technology it would be good if power lines and wind turbines could be situated where they will have the least impact on migration routes, without information this will be hard to do. Maybe we can help to protect important fishing grounds (or more generally bird hunting grounds).

I hope we can all be kind to our fellow forumnists (and neighbours) who disagree with us because dissension is essential so that these kind of decisions are constantly evaluated to make sure the price individual birds pay is not too high and that the information gained is useful. Watching the young eaglets in the US interact as normal after one of them was fitted with a transmitter is very reassuring, but it is not proof, but we can watch, learn, talk and make better decisions tomorrow.
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Post by Birdie »

I'll take a break , thinking about .. a lot...
bye :hi:
Nori S7, Uno S8, Elo S9
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Post by Birdie »

ok, break tooks not so long :rotf:
I dont like forums who deletes posts, I dont like administrators who act like gods. So... I' m wrong here :mrgreen:

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Post by Kukelke »

IKat wrote:I must confess that until a few days ago I didn't know about the V-22 Osprey. The Hellgate ospreys are amazing in the fact they seem to not notice they are in the very midst of civilization. Really enjoy watching them also. Wonder tho' when the banding (ringing) of the Hellgate nestlings took place the camera was turned off?....Suppose they have their reasons. The Hellgate "kids" seem to be doing just fine in their unusual living area....they seem not to notice all the traffic and people. It amazes me how some are so adaptable.....
Ospreys don't seem to be bothered much by human presence in their surroundings. Not only the Hellgate ospreys, but also other nests are very close or in the midst of towns and cities. I've even stumbled across ads on the internet where houses were sold with the bonus feature that you could watch the local ospreys from your veranda.

It seems that as far as nesting is concerned, ospreys only need two things: a body of (rather shallow) water with enough fish, and a high spot nearby to build their nest. That high spot could easily be man-made. Often lacking suitable nesting sites is the main problem for ospreys, hunting places not so much. Therefore it is a good thing that humans help ospreys to return to their former areas, or to get a more dense local osprey population by erecting nesting platforms and don't remove old dead trees from the shorelines and such, so they can perch.
Today I read somewhere (can't remember where exactly) that about half of the osprey nests in Finland are artificial, and they seem to thrive well there.
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Post by IKat »

Kukelke wrote: Ospreys don't seem to be bothered much by human presence in their surroundings. Not only the Hellgate ospreys, but also other nests are very close or in the midst of towns and cities. I've even stumbled across ads on the internet where houses were sold with the bonus feature that you could watch the local ospreys from your veranda.

It seems that as far as nesting is concerned, ospreys only need two things: a body of (rather shallow) water with enough fish, and a high spot nearby to build their nest. That high spot could easily be man-made. Often lacking suitable nesting sites is the main problem for ospreys, hunting places not so much. Therefore it is a good thing that humans help ospreys to return to their former areas, or to get a more dense local osprey population by erecting nesting platforms and don't remove old dead trees from the shorelines and such, so they can perch.
Today I read somewhere (can't remember where exactly) that about half of the osprey nests in Finland are artificial, and they seem to thrive well there.


I really became interested in the NA Osprey when I started watching a cam that was positioned on a nest in Washington state. It was located at an old lumber mill. The osprey had built their nest on a part of the working mill itself. It was decided for the safety of the birds to build a platform away from the mill operations (but still within sight of the mill) and hope (with fingers crossed) that they would return the next year and build upon the man made structure. They did the very next year. They carried all their branches and twigs to the platform, built a lovely nest and raised their young there. Sadly, they did not nest there this year....I checked through much of the spring to see if they returned, but they did not. The man who owned the mill has recently sold a lot of the surrounding land and now developers are building " beautiful lakeside" homes there. Sad to say this is most likely the main reason the osprey are probably nesting elsewhere. The nest and cam are still there but the abandoned nest looks dismal. A bald eagle checked out the nest area a couple of times but has not nested there either. Perhaps next year....



Hope this link to the man-made structure works:


http://www.ospreynest.org/pictures.htm#



Original nest site:


http://www.ospreynest.org/images/rc2.jpg
S7-Nori-F?
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landscape as it was before." ~ Robert Lynd
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Post by Cara »

Urmas wrote:Hi, Cara!
Actually I'd like to see real pictures in avatars, but its up to every one...
So your real avatar is fine! I have to find for me also some... if find some time.

We with Latvian colleague Janis are going to look after the nest site and if we are lucky, one of parents could get transmitter - sorry for this additional disturbing (we really know that any additional device on bird makes not much happier it), but only so we could see where they travel and what places might be dangerous.
From other side we want to know about the transmitters impact, it is only possible if we look together and express the results. If something will be not well, we can improve our activity in the future. Hope you all understand! At the moment we do our best.


Hi Urmas,
I esteem you and your work very much, so it's a great pleasure to me that you typed this posting!

And even though I would be against "transmittering" animals (in another better world :-/ .....) I know of the importance and usefulness to protect animals. So I am happy that there exist such humans like you and all the others of this wonderful project! That's why "transmittering" in this case is a thing to say THANK YOU! So much THANKS for your work to you, Urmas, and to all the others of your team and also to the Latvian team!

But I've questions about it: I've seen such transmitters on birds ridges and they're not really small. I wonder if this isn't a big hindrance for those birdies to handle their natural life (for example in copulation process or in the case of Ospreys for hunting fishes what seems to be more dangerous with "electricity getting wet". Please, don't laugh at me ;-) but I really have this question in my thoughts. Same with another "weird" question: Is it more dangerous for "transmitted" birds when there's a thunderstorm? Thought once again is the "electricity" on the ridge. Maybe it attracts a lightning strike? ....... Maybe silly thoughts, but I have those weird worries ;-)
“Animals have done us no harm and they have no power of resistance.…There is something so very dreadful…in tormenting those who have never harmed us, who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power.” (~ Cardinal John Henry Newman ~)
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Post by Kukelke »

IKat wrote:I really became interested in the NA Osprey when I started watching a cam that was positioned on a nest in Washington state. It was located at an old lumber mill. The osprey had built their nest on a part of the working mill itself. It was decided for the safety of the birds to build a platform away from the mill operations (but still within sight of the mill) and hope (with fingers crossed) that they would return the next year and build upon the man made structure. They did the very next year. They carried all their branches and twigs to the platform, built a lovely nest and raised their young there. Sadly, they did not nest there this year....I checked through much of the spring to see if they returned, but they did not. The man who owned the mill has recently sold a lot of the surrounding land and now developers are building " beautiful lakeside" homes there. Sad to say this is most likely the main reason the osprey are probably nesting elsewhere. The nest and cam are still there but the abandoned nest looks dismal. A bald eagle checked out the nest area a couple of times but has not nested there either. Perhaps next year....
That's an interesting story. Let's hope they return next year again.

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere in our Estonian osprey topic that the same pair of ospreys have another nest as well (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), not too far from the current nest. There's a topic about that other nest too if I'm not mistaken. So maybe the ospreys in your story too have a second home or cottage on the country side which they use this year as alternative housing?
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Post by IKat »

Kukelke wrote: That's an interesting story. Let's hope they return next year again.

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere in our Estonian osprey topic that the same pair of ospreys have another nest as well (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), not too far from the current nest. There's a topic about that other nest too if I'm not mistaken. So maybe the ospreys in your story too have a second home or cottage on the country side which they use this year as alternative housing?

I think I read the same about an alternate nest site ....hopefully the Washington pair had a "cottage" located elsewhere....
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Post by IKat »

Have a good evening everyone.....must go for now.... :innocent:
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Post by Cara »

Wisteria wrote:
I agree, Cara, don't change your avatar on our account, you have such pretty plumage anyway!

I think the best thing about this osprey cam is that it puts a face (and wings) on the creatures who are so impacted by human affairs - pollution, habitat loss, climate change and sheer carelessness. I've only been watching here for a couple months but I've sent numerous emails with the link to other people, so they will see the beauty, grace and humility of these small creatures that only want to survive.

And the guys who climbed up the tree to set the nest and camera, then climbed up again to ring the chicks - they are heroes! And all the people who support them and even we who watch at home on our computers, expanding the message that we humans are not just spoiling our earth, we're spoiling it for every living thing and we have to work to change that.

How boring life would be without so many creatures of the air, land and sea, so beautifully going about the business of living - it would be a great tragedy to lose any of them, and it is a tragedy that we have already lost some, forever.

Okay you get the picture, I'm done preaching for the night. :offtobed:
:chick: :chick: :chick:

:hi: Hi Urmas! Great work so far! Thank you!

Hello Wisteria,

your words are wonderful! They made my skin crawl! And the line " so they will see the beauty, grace and humility of these small creatures that only want to survive" lets make my eyes a bit "teary"! When I read your text it was like that would be lines, typed by me! So I'm not able to add anything to these lines..... your words are my words.....! ..... and fortunately also the words of a crowd in this world who are acting for protection of mother earth and their living beings!

Love and light to you .....
“Animals have done us no harm and they have no power of resistance.…There is something so very dreadful…in tormenting those who have never harmed us, who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power.” (~ Cardinal John Henry Newman ~)
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Post by Kukelke »

IKat wrote:I think I read the same about an alternate nest site ....hopefully the Washington pair had a "cottage" located elsewhere....
Indeed, fingers crossed for that. And thanks for the links you added in your previous post. :)

Also, as I've said before elsewhere on the forum, ospreys seem to look at the Netherlands now to (re-)colonise. There have been some breeding attempts in recent years, but it is still unknown if those produced any young. What is sure however, is that they have been building nests themselves, and as a reaction on that local osprey enthousiasts have erected nesting platforms on different locations, but I haven't found any information about how succesful that has been so far.
Building a nest can take several years, if ospreys have to do it themselves, and in order to speed up this process people in the Netherlands build "pre-fab" nests, ready for ospreys to move in and without the hassle of having to collect nesting material. Move in, mate, lay eggs, hatch, and raise the chicks is all they have to do now. :D

Here an example of the man-made construction of an osprey nest on top of a powerline mast:

Preparations:
Image

Climbing up to the already placed steel construction:
Image

A closer look at the steel construction and some smaller ponds on the background:
Image

Ponds and ditches nearby, seen from the soon to be nest:
Image
Image

Logs and branches are dragged up:
Image

The branches are woven into the steel construction:
Image

Then lined with turf, and as finishing touch some hay:
Image

Testing of the final construction:
Image

Pictures taken from this website: http://www.rekel.nl/visarenden/

Pretty close to this nest there's also a much larger body of water with plenty of fish, so hopefully one day "oversummering" ospreys ready to breed will use this nest and start to produce their own Unos, Elos and Noris. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that.


From the same website also an interesting article about ospreys in the Netherlands (article in English): the first breeding attempt? and a further link there to the building of other artificial nesting platforms.
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Post by Cara »

alice44 wrote:They are so beautiful even though they blend in so beautifully to a bunch of old sticks.


Don't you just wonder what the danger is? Maybe a WTE stealing a fish from Madis or...


Yes, they're so beautiful ♥
And me, too ;-) ..... every alarm I wonder about the danger :puzzled:
“Animals have done us no harm and they have no power of resistance.…There is something so very dreadful…in tormenting those who have never harmed us, who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power.” (~ Cardinal John Henry Newman ~)
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Post by IKat »

Wow Kukelke......isn't it amazing what some will do for our Ospreys? Love it.....thank you for sharing this. While trolling around the web looking for osprey info I came upon this photo of a juvenile osprey. Is this not the most fabulous face???? :D



http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/ ... 4649_n.jpg
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Post by Cara »

will(y) wrote: ah, an remote-controlled osprey... :-|
Video of ringing an osprey chick and fitting the satellite transmitter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6THdM7FsS4
i can't imagine how this shall be done...


Meanwhile after watching this video I am not sure anymore, it this would be the correct way we should go with our beloved Ospreys or any other bird :unsure: This transmitting thingie looks more as a hindering thing for birds as I thought before (point to this antenna). Also I wonder if birds can get entangled in trees with it and also I think this cannot be a good thing for catching fishes under water (in case of ospreys).
Before I watched this video I knew that those transmitting thingies are not the smallest ones and that they would affixed at the ridge of a bird, but I didn't know that transmitters are sized so big and have an antenna :shock:
“Animals have done us no harm and they have no power of resistance.…There is something so very dreadful…in tormenting those who have never harmed us, who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power.” (~ Cardinal John Henry Newman ~)
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Post by will(y) »

[offtopic]
@Cara: The transmitter used by Urmas is smaller, lighter, and has no antenna.
Much better than this one at the picture wich was posted by meierlein.[/offtopic]
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Post by meierlein »

will(y) wrote:The transmitter used by Urmas is smaller, lighter, and has no antenna.
Much better then the picture wich was posted by meierlein.

:slap:

hey - I didnt put that antenna on that poor bird :shock:

:mrgreen:
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