DISCUSSION ESTLAT Osprey Nest 1 Madis & Piret ~ 2012

[meierlein]

But isn't that 'old news' Nancy?
Will they take lesser fish now, because of the transmitter?
I mean; the owner of the fishfarm allready knows they 'steel' fish, how will the transmitter change that?
We also Know that humans are the biggest enemy of ALL animals, how will you change the human behaviore against that?
It needs a change of mentality from human in general, I don't believe a transmitter will help do that.
I know I am hardheaded (am I?), but I will understand the reasons off things and in this I really don't see a solution/improvement for the birds.

in German we name that attitude "Beratungsresistent"

[Joem13]

Joem13,
I really see Nori developing from chick to eagle. Can not confirm standing on the legs all too often. Rather I see Nori standing on the pawns and the feathering get darker. He is definitely on his way.
But I agree in the reasons for Nori not being that active.

Yes! of course he is, but i only said he is quite delayed in his development than his siblings, he stay on pawns but very few, and of course i hope he will fly soon, but maybe 2 o 3 days later than the others, he always was the last and if this area wasn't as much rich in fish as it is, with lot and big fishes for everybody, probably he never would be survived this 50 days, but he did and now is getting strong and big enough to fly.

But he always will have the added risk of been later and delayed than the other 2 brothers, for example he would have less days to learn how to fish, less days to learn about best places to sleep or to watch enemys, and he would have less days to enfort the muscles before the big travel and flying to the south. That is what i meant when i said nature is always harder and severe with the last chick.

[Kapa]

Joem13,
I totally agree with your last post!

[meierlein]

Joem13,
I totally agree with your last post!

me not -
he compares the siblings very simple

but NORI learned a lot in fighting for her food in a special way
and therefore I named her tricky NORI ^^

NORI became stronger from minute to minute
she will make her way

and it was interesting for me to watch,
how PIRET teached her chicks in social behavior

[Baltar]

maybe a little offtopic but I recently found this awesome video about osprey fishing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA3LtXnNIto

Let's hope that Nori, Elo and Uno will find those fish places, too

[Kapa]

me not -
he compares the siblings very simple

but NORI learned a lot in fighting for her food in a special way
and therefore I named her tricky NORI ^^

NORI became stronger from minute to minute
she will make her way

and it was interesting for me to watch,
how PIRET teached her chicks in social behavior

Meierlein,
this was not to argue with you ;)
I don't think the points of view conflict. Yes, Nori was learning and growing extremely fast. And to see how she struggled for her meals was great. I also think she really is smart, tricky as You would say.
But then again, the past weeks were quite harsh especially for Nori. Being the smallest and weakest of the chicks was giving the other two a head start. And now she is just taking the time she needs to be ready for take-off. Including eating a lot an developing. And exercise jumps ;)
It wouldn't be bad to have her one or two more days exclusively on the nest.

Unfortunately I could not spend the time to see or hear live-education by Piret. Lucky you!
Greetings

[chicktrick]

Jasmijntje,
Please finish the article. I too have only skimmed it but one important issue jumped out at me: some migrating birds have very few places where they land to rest, and they use the same few places every migration. Only if those places are known can they be preserved and made into bird sanctuaries. These places have not been discovered by people watching on the ground. Nor did the bird experts know, until the transmitter tracking, how limited the birds are in where they land.

The transmitter technology is improving. Piret's transmitter is very different from the one described in the Guardian article. And while I have decided I am slightly in favor of the careful use of transmitters, I am glad that there are dissenting voices keeping a watch on the whole issue. I am glad to hear you voice your views. It is quite possible I could change my mind if further information that the birds were being harmed came to light.

I hope more people come here and tell us what they think and provide us with information about it.

[Jasmijn]

Also fraulein Meierlein: you call me stubborn because I have a different oppinion?
(in Dutch we call that zelfdenkend instead of meelopen!)

[Jo UK]

Ok, i saw it. Next time, i will make them smaller.

Super man - thanks!

[Joem13]

And now she is just taking the time she needs to be ready for take-off. Including eating a lot an developing.

Hello Kapa, how can you be as much sure Nori is a female? Or is is just the general feeling of the forum?
Is there any place where they said the results of the blood analisy?
Thanks

[Lizitas]

Hello Kapa, how can you be as much sure Nori is a female? Or is is just the general feeling of the forum?
Is there any place where they said the results of the blood analisy?
Thanks

Hi Joem13, We're just guessing.

[Yiki]

Hello Kapa, how can you be as much sure Nori is a female? Or is is just the general feeling of the forum?
Is there any place where they said the results of the blood analisy?
Thanks

As far as I know, the results of the DNA test are not in yet, but Urmas suspected Uno to be male and Elo and Nori to be female after the ringing. I guess that's why a lot of us have come to think of Nori as female. Of course we can't be sure until the DNA results arrive.

[meierlein]

Also fraulein Meierlein: you call me stubborn because I have a different oppinion?
(in Dutch we call that zelfdenkend instead of meelopen!)

I am more the Analyst ^^

[Jo UK]

Hello Kapa, how can you be as much sure Nori is a female? Or is is just the general feeling of the forum?
Is there any place where they said the results of the blood analisy?
Thanks

Joem13.
I don't know that any blood was taken, Usually, the ornithologists take feather samples for DNA testing. The results of that often take months.
On every webcam nest we have had here, members always fall into the habit of referring to the various chicks as he or she. Sometimes we are right, and sometimes wrong. Opinions are often based on relative sizes of the young birds or the colour of plumage.
One year we named the young black storks as Mr. this, Miss that and so on. In fact, all three were females that year!

[Kapa]

Hello Kapa, how can you be as much sure Nori is a female? Or is is just the general feeling of the forum?

Hello Joem13,
it is just my personal estimation. Therefore I used a question-mark first but stopped it. Just substitute he oder she or it with everything you like.
Bye

[Joem13]

it is just my personal estimation. Therefore I used a question-mark first but stopped it. Just substitute he oder she or it with everything you like.
Bye

It is ok, I just wanted to know if you did because some of the people who did the ring had informed about it and people in the forum know the sex of the chicks, without have to read the 300 previous pages

[meierlein]

It is ok, I just wanted to know if you did because some of the people who did the ring had informed about it and people in the forum know the sex of the chicks, without have to read the 300 previous pages

:peek:

I put it on the behavior
how the siblings act from the beginning ^^

[Millie]

I am in favour of finding out as much as possible about these marvelous birds, but have not known of trapping adult birds. In this instance I think it was timed very badly when Madis and Piret were still feeding and caring for their chicks.
I feel Piret has been very traumatised and is now scared to fish. Thank goodness it was'nt Madis or this nest would have suffered more.
The natural balance of this nest has been damaged and it has made me extremly sad.

[gitana]

Information is always good, but we here are discussing if it’s (transmitter) safe for birds. Unfortunately there are not so much information about it.
There were nice and sensitive postings about nature, wild life, how important is to have information etc. All I understand and agree. But the topic is “is it safe to put a transmitter on a bird TODAY and what are the risks (if there are some)”. Not in 5 years or 10 years ago. Today. And it has nothing to do with what I “like” or “don’t like”.

Before we started this discussion I really thought that transmitter is damaging bird. Please understand me correctly – I didn’t think that after a month the bird would lose a foot or his beak; not that crazy. I thought that it effects something like radiation.

Would be really nice to hear an opinion of professionals- veterinarians, ornithologist, people who produce these transmitters.

At the moment I have no opinion about transmitter’s safety… I don’t like to see antenna on the bird (prefer not to) but if it is safe, let it be. Without any facts (probably there some just I don’t know) I just believe in Urmas as a person: “he loves birds, he dedicated his life probably to them so if he knew that it would heart the bird he wouldn’t go for it”.

[gitana]

I am in favour of finding out as much as possible about these marvelous birds, but have not known of trapping adult birds. In this instance I think it was timed very badly when Madis and Piret were still feeding and caring for their chicks.
I feel Piret has been very traumatised and is now scared to fish. Thank goodness it was'nt Madis or this nest would have suffered more.
The natural balance of this nest has been damaged and it has made me extremly sad.

Hmm.. could be. Or maybe we just don't see her fishing...