DISCUSSION ~ ESTLAT Osprey Nests ~ 2013

[Raziel]

I can´t get it to work on android eather...

No luck for me today on Madis' or Ilmars nests. No birds everytime I look

[Tonia]

Anybody try to have a look at the nest with the android version? I tried, but it doesn't work.

On my android does it work!

[Eden]

If Oxana should lay eggs the next days (I still doubt that she is mature enough) – will she have the peace for breeding? With a mate who is pushing her away from time to time and with a rival visiting the nest? I doubt again.

[yarrow]

If Oxana should lay eggs the next days (I still doubt that she is mature enough) – will she have the peace for breeding? With a mate who is pushing her away from time to time and with a rival visiting the nest? I doubt again.

...and a nest that´s not ready...next strong wind an dall is gone...and Oxana is still yealing....

yarrow

[julanoschi]

I don't think also, that this are the right conditions for succesful breading. But we may see...

[Helga]

Last year the first egg from Madis and Piret was layed at 7th of May, so I think we have time to wait what will happen!

Edit : [ I have to do some housework yet! Watching Oxana the whole time makes me sitting around and waiting for my husband to that. ]

[Wisteria]

Has anyone filmed the situation?
Piret and Oxana in the nest. I would like to see more than a picture.

The video of Piret's visit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvx9ch5n ... e=youtu.be






(edited to make the video visible here ~ NancyM)

[yarrow]

Last year the first egg from Madis and Piret was layed at 7th of May, so I think we have time to wait what will happen!

Edit : [ I have to do some housework yet! Watching Oxana the whole time makes me sitting around and waiting for my husband to that. ]

But last year we had a propper nest...this is more a junk yard...and Oxana is yealing and doing nothing...except...eating fish...or playing with moss or wood...I´d love to go there...grab Oxana...put her on Ilmars nest and Piret on Madis nest...and then take care of my wounds...if I´m still able to walk...


yarrow

[Eden]

I´d love to go there...grab Oxana...put her on Ilmars nest
yarrow

This could possibly be Oxana's death sentence, don't forget the 2 WTEs

[kessi]

I'm in contact with Vanessa Greene from the Twin Cities Metro Osprey Watch at the moment. She has about 20 years of experience in observing and studying ospreys. And I told her about the situation going on between Madis, Oxana and Piret.
I wrote her last night (before Piret came back) and this is what I wrote:

But I really have a question about a pair of osprey in an Estonian nest. I don't know if you are familiar with these nests, so this is what happenend:
Last year a new pair of osprey raised three chicks in this nest. They all went on migration (all of them are ringed and the female, Piret, also has a transmitter). This year on April, 16th or 17th, the male (called Madis) returned from migration. And a day later there was a new female (not ringed) on the nest. There were some copulations (or at least try-outs) going on, the male brought nesting material and fish. But the female didn't help building the nest.
Then on April 22nd, Piret, the "old" female, returned from migration and was immediately attacked by the new female. The next morning Piret was still on the nest and there was some copulation going on between Piret and Madis. But then the new female started some attacks and Piret left the nest and wasn't seen anymore since then.
Now I've read lots of stuff about mating behaviour of ospreys. And what I could figure out is, that this "mating for life" is perhaps because of the very strong bonding to the nest and not because of the bonding between the birds. Now I'm wondering, when (or if) there is such a strong bond to the nest, why would an osprey just leave the nest after some attacks and not come back? And would that bird more likely stay in the area of the nest and would not breed during this year?
And what I also find interesting that the male bird and the new female are staying in the nest and there's a lot of copulation going on, but they don't really build the nest. The male brings material sometimes but there is not much nest-building going on. It was suggested that the female is perhaps too young to breed...
Since you said that you observed a lot of divorces and extra pair copulations, what's your opinion on that? Is that a common divorce?

And here's Vanessa's answer:

Ok let me begin to respond to your story about the Estonian ospreys ( send me the link to watch them!). First of all it sounds like it hasn't been very long that Piret has been gone...so be patient. One of the difficulties of watching these nests on cams is that you can't see what is happening outside the range of the camera. She could be perched nearby, he could be going between two females (I have seen it), I always feel like I can learn more in person when I can search for a bird and see what's going on away from the nest. Do you think the attack from the unbanded female was aggressive enough to have injured Piret? I once witnessed a female attack her own chick and injure it! I had to pick the chick up from the ground and take it to the raptor center for care. It's shoulder was broken! It was a startling attack and it still makes no sense to me.

About divorce ...in my 20 years of studying them the divorces always occurred after the nest failed the prior year. Having said that, I am watching a situation now where a male has left his former mate and their nest, where they successfully fledged chicks last year, and is hanging out with another female on another nest where the male did not return. He must see that as a
better territory. His former mate sits at the old nest waiting. I find this a little surprising and i am watching to see how it turns out.
I know it is a common belief that that they bond with a nest site, not each other, but I do not think that is entirely true. I have seen pairs move together to a new territory after a nest failure, so there does seem to be a bond with their mate. I also saw a female , who had been with a mate for 11 years, spend a whole season waiting for him and chasing away males. Some birds accept a new mate easily and quickly. Some don't.
You mentioned that perhaps the new female is too young to breed. In my experience, if they are too young to breed, they are usually not receptive to copulation. They just become "housekeepers". Not all females contribute to nest building. Some males are not great nest builders either. One of our oldest males, 21, had a pitifully small nest. In fact the nest had so many holes in it the eggs fell out...we had to add sticks for him. At another nest the male has built a HUGE nest...a high rise!
So for Piret to leave, she may have gotten some signals from the male too. There may be behavioral clues we cannot know from watching an online camera.
Did she fly away and get Into some other kind of trouble...hit by a car etc? Attacked at night by an owl?
Is Madis feeding this new female?
Well, there are some thoughts and questions...keep me posted! We still have a lot to learn!

I now wrote another email and told her about Piret's visit this morning. And I'm excited what she thinks about that!

If you are interested in Vanessa's observations, here's the link to her Facebook page and her blog. It's really interesting and there are a lot of nests she watches regularly.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Twin-Cit ... 8924786696
http://ospreywatch.blogspot.de/

[Rhapsodya]

very interesting, maybe you can invite her to join us in this forum!!

[Hellem]

LK-s main page today:
http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/16566

[yarrow]

This could possibly be Oxana's death sentence, don't forget the 2 WTEs

Don´t worry...I live in Germany and my cat would kill me if I´d try to leave her to go to Estonia dealing with eagles...besides, I know that they have to solve the situation alone.

yarrow

[helenp]

So for Piret to leave, she may have gotten some signals from the male too.

I think that wean oxana started to try to take the nest, piret tried to attack here several times, in Oxanas last try to take the nest Madis came at once to nest and was mantling, after that Piret did not try anymore. I think he said to Piret this nest is ours.

[Alex germany]

Thanks Alex for your work.
Could there perhaps

Tawny Owls

Klaara & Klaus
http://pontu.eenet.ee/player/kakk.html

It is just a question.

Hello Bärbel

I've tried to include it but i didn't found a pontu archive link for the owls nest.
It should look like this for example: 'http://pontu.eenet.ee/kakk/2013-04-16/2 ... -15-07.jpg' but this does not work.
If you have a working link then i'm happy to add this nest too.

Thank you again, Alex! But I'm having problem downloading this one. Is there a problem with the link? Did someone else here manage to download it?

Hello Lunan

It seems that the fileden hoster has a lot of maintenance these days.
I've uploaded my Pontu Viewer 2.2 2013 to another file hoster.
Here it is:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8miq5m

[piyopiyoya]

kessi-
Thank you so much for this information from Vanessa Greene.
And thank you for the link.

Please let us know the reply of another email.

[Lunan]

Hello Lunan

It seems that the fileden hoster has a lot of maintenance these days.
I've uploaded my Pontu Viewer 2.2 2013 to another file hoster.
Here it is:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8miq5m

Thanks! That worked fine.

[Lunan]

I'm in contact with Vanessa Greene from the Twin Cities Metro Osprey Watch at the moment. She has about 20 years of experience in observing and studying ospreys. And I told her about the situation going on between Madis, Oxana and Piret.
I wrote her last night (before Piret came back) and this is what I wrote:
...

If you are interested in Vanessa's observations, here's the link to her Facebook page and her blog. It's really interesting and there are a lot of nests she watches regularly.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Twin-Cit ... 8924786696
http://ospreywatch.blogspot.de/

Thanks for very interesting info, Kessi! I really hope she will join us here and share her knowledge with us.

I checked her Facebook page and found this link to awonderful video from Dyfi Ospreys in Wales. Title: "Monty, I've lost my dinner!"
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201113835790810

[piyopiyoya]

Thanks for very interesting info, Kessi! I really hope she will join us here and share her knowledge with us.

I checked her Facebook page and found this link to awonderful video from Dyfi Ospreys in Wales. Title: "Monty, I've lost my dinner!"
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201113835790810

Monty is a very interesting osprey. He has picked a fish up once dropped on the ground 09/04/2013.
You can watch on Dyfi Osprey Project facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/dyfiospreyproject

[chicktrick]

Hello!

I'm new here. I spent many exiting moments watching the osprey family last summer. I am waiting anxiously to see how things turn out this year. I started to read this forum just a few days ago since things started to get a bit confusing at the nest site. It is wonderful to notice that these birds have so many enthusiastic fans.

Welcome neonia!

Thanks Kessi for that interesting information! It looks like Piret still may have a chance? Or she may be nesting nearby and just came to see her ex and check out his new young wife's housekeeping.

It is also hopeful that if she is around maybe Urmas can still remove the backpack.