How do you say - - ?

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NancyM
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Re: How do you say - - ?

Post by NancyM »

alice44 wrote:I am curious about the time frame for the quote.
The Polish nobility were most influential from roughly 1550 to 1795. After that, the country was divided among three other political powers (Russia, Prussia, and Austria), and their position was rather tenuous. In 1921, the nobility was lawfully abolished during the Second Polish Republic (between WWI and WWII).

I'm hoping that Bisky's son will take another look, now that the has a bit more context.

Thanks everyone, for your contributions - Liis, I don't know if the two mottos would be the same or not.

ETA: I found this list of Latin Mottos and Phrases, but guess what ..
http://www.yuni.com/library/latin.html
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Post by Liis »

bociany wrote: ETA: I found this list of Latin Mottos and Phrases, but guess what ..
http://www.yuni.com/library/latin.html
Wonderful place anyway for rooting around in, thanks!
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Post by Bisky »

Oh my, I see the question about the motto is still unanswered.

My son feels that the key is the word "Kontiones." When spelled with the letter C instead of K, the meaning is a meeting or assembly of men, so the motto would be roughly "(to or for) a just man of all men." Spelled with a K is about 1,000 years later than his particular time frame of expertise and the meaning could be changed with the different spelling. He has a book that may help, but he won't have a chance to spend time on it until the semester ends in another week.

He also suggested, given your location, contacting the Classics Department of Harvard or Tufts with your question. When he taught at the University of Illinois, they were very good about helping people with questions like yours--you could try them as well. He isn't aware of anyone at Boston College or U Mass now with Eastern European medieval expertise.

Of course, most of the universities won't have anyone around until the new semester starts in mid-January, so it looks like this may remain an open question until the new year.
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Post by macdoum »

Liis wrote:Or might the sense - not literal translation - be something like "Primus inter pares", First among equals (or peers; since one probably didn't care all that much about being first among muckrakers or cowherds ... Not enough for a motto anyway )
Well Liis I suppose that's a point made.!!
:rotf: :2thumbsup:
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NancyM
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Post by NancyM »

Bisky wrote:My son feels that the key is the word "Kontiones." When spelled with the letter C instead of K, the meaning is a meeting or assembly of men, so the motto would be roughly "(to or for) a just man of all men." Spelled with a K is about 1,000 years later than his particular time frame of expertise and the meaning could be changed with the different spelling.
many thanks, Bisky (and son of Bisky !)

I have seen K used very often in Polish names where we would expect a C (Konstanty vs Constantine, for example), so I doubt the meaning would change in this instance.

The person who runs the forum where the question was originally asked has - I think - some contacts who study Polish heraldry and might be able to get input from one of them. I will let you all know if I ever get an answer.
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Post by Bisky »

bociany wrote:
I will let you all know if I ever get an answer.
Please do! It looks as if you have created a group of curious followers here!
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Post by NancyM »

bociany wrote:Can anyone translate this phrase from the Latin?
"Viro in Omnes Hominum Kontiones Justo"
Here is the latest news!

1. the phrase was an inscription on a tombstone (not a family motto).

2. the fifth word is "conditiones" (not Kontiones)

3. someone translated the Latin into Polish ( "Mężowi słusznemu na wszelkie zgromadzenia ludzi" ) and then someone else translated it into English ... "In honor of a man who was extraordinary (outstanding or right) in all kinds of assemblies (congregations)".

I suppose that could be smoother :book:

This man was head and shoulders above the crowd.
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Post by Liis »

Thank you, Bociany!
There could have been no peaceful Christmas with that unsolved.
Is anything known of the person by the way? was he outstanding and virtuous?
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Post by Liis »

What is what, and where, on a bird? :help:
A helpful first-aid drawing for us non-English non-twitchers & non-bongers: http://www.infovisual.info/02/053_en.html
More details: www.virtualmuseum.ca/...Birds ...English/glossary
Is there anything similar in Estonian, please?
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Post by Jo UK »

Thank you Liis!

Now we know that birds DO have chins!
What a good find. :rotf: :2thumbsup:
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Post by Liis »

Jo UK wrote:Now we know that birds DO have chins!
What a good find. :rotf: :2thumbsup:
Thank you!
But, ummm ... Do they?
I mean, having a place for something doesn't excatly mean that one has it too. Come to think of it, having a proper chin (or more) seems to be a rather human speciality. Others have lots of jaw, if anything. Do crocodiles have a chin - not much, at least, it seems?
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Post by HelenD »

when I want to see the webcams/live streams, I no longer have to go to the English page - I can figure it out from the Estonian page! That may be because, after almost a year, I know the set-up of the page, but I do find I can recognize some little words of Estonian. :laugh:
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Post by Liis »

hdarbysh wrote:when I want to see the webcams/live streams, I no longer have to go to the English page - I can figure it out from the Estonian page! That may be because, after almost a year, I know the set-up of the page, but I do find I can recognize some little words of Estonian. :laugh:
Hurrah, elagu, Helen! :wave:
And this is ABSOLUTELY NOT meant to discourage you, but Yarko had a link to a hilarious story about Estonian and learning Estonian in a post long ago
Here is the link to the story, just in case - the post links misbehave, sometimes
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Post by macdoum »

That, Liis is hilarious.. :rotf: :rotf:
Cheers. :D High five.!!
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
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Post by HelenD »

macdoum wrote:That, Liis is hilarious.. :rotf: :rotf:
Cheers. :D High five.!!
That is really funny!! Yes I know - I just recognise the layout of the page and that is why I can click the Estonian words to give me what I'm looking for! I've never even heard Estonian spoken. And I'm not sure how I could ever use "hyjles" in a conversation!! :laugh:
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Post by Liis »

hdarbysh wrote:
That is really funny!! Yes I know - I just recognise the layout of the page and that is why I can click the Estonian words to give me what I'm looking for! I've never even heard Estonian spoken. And I'm not sure how I could ever use "hyjles" in a conversation!! :laugh:
Hmmm - pronounce it, or use it?
Pronounce? easy: absolutely, precisely, always exactly as it is written, each and every letter (well, of course there are these small nuances here & there, but still ...). It is really written hüljes by the way, English-minded computers don't much like letters with diacritics.
Use? - true, you would have some strategic planning to do to introduce it at a, say, Nobel Prize or Oscar gala dinner or other nice chit-chat :mrgreen: At an Arctic Safari, maybe?
PS, about pronounce - Google Translate may have some kind of audio translate/listen, but not sure. May be only some languages. At the moment it is very unusable for anything Estonian anyway.
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Post by HelenD »

Liis, you are funny and I am glad to know you through this forum. When I collect my Nobel Peace Prize for most time wasted at work by watching the forest cam, the seal cam and the small bird feeder cam, I shall take you with me to the gala dinner!
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Post by Liis »

:bow: :bow: :bow:
I really look forward to it. :innocent: Nobel laureates can take 14 family members and friends to the science and literature Nobel events in Stockholm. Let us hope Oslo is as generous.

Does anyone know of a good audio page on Internet with Estonian phrases and pronunciation?
Those I found one had to pay for, and the free ones didn't work very well.
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Post by Arvi »

Liis wrote::bow: :bow: :bow:
I really look forward to it. :innocent: Nobel laureates can take 14 family members and friends to the science and literature Nobel events in Stockholm. Let us hope Oslo is as generous.

Does anyone know of a good audio page on Internet with Estonian phrases and pronunciation?
Those I found one had to pay for, and the free ones didn't work very well.
Here I found something (texts in pdf-format, and matching audio, but at start and end of every lesson there is some additionl audio text)
http://moodle.artun.ee/course/view.php?id=34

And of-course in ETV ETV or ETV archive anyone can find something to hear - but with exeption of some films maybe, no texts there to look at.
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Post by Liis »

Arvi wrote:
Here I found something (texts in pdf-format, and matching audio, but at start and end of every lesson there is some additionl audio text)
http://moodle.artun.ee/course/view.php?id=34

And of-course in ETV ETV or ETV archive anyone can find something to hear - but with exeption of some films maybe, no texts there to look at.
Thank you, Arvi! ( I was hoping that you would know something)
Mmm, interesting what words and phrases one is expected to need first and most.

PS. Here is a chance to listen to Estonian straight off, direct web camera, no editing: Monday January 11, 18.00 (Estonian time) [url]mms://tv.eenet.tv/looduseomnibuss[/url], Nature Evening at the Estonian National Library, theme Karst areas and wells; karst films and photos, poetry, singing.
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