How do you say - - ?

Socialising, getting to know each other.
An Off Topic topic
Post Reply
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Re: How do you say - - ?

Post by Liis »

Kevadtalv.
Any good suggestions for this inbetween season?
Dictionary suggests "late winter - early spring".
Vernal winter ? Hibernal spring? Springy winter? Vernohibernal spring? :mrgreen:

Languages have words for what people feel they need to talk about. True. But international understanding and translations :cry: ?
User avatar
Kitty KCMO
Registered user
Posts: 5717
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:05 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

Post by Kitty KCMO »

Liis, we Americans, ever an optimistic bunch about such things-- impatient, might be a better word, impatient for change-- usually start saying "early spring" as soon as it seems winter has loosened its icy grip. Rarely do I hear the term "a late winter storm," for instance. Usually it would be called "an early spring snowstorm or ice storm" even if it is not yet spring solstice time. It may be different where Alice lives, but that is how it seems here in the very center of the country.
Kitty KCMO
User avatar
Felis silvestris
Site Admin
Posts: 20038
Joined: February 20th, 2011, 4:54 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Felis silvestris »

Moved here from the boarcam topic - since I have to again keep watch on my cat, hopefully the breathing becomes normal soon again
Liis wrote:OT = Off Topic & Other Things; just once more ... :blush:
Felis's question about Estonian pronunciation (posted here ):
Estonian is pronounced very much precisely as it is written. With some delicate nuances of intonation shared with, for instance, Chinese ... Swedish seemed wonderfully easy in comparison, it was quite hard to hear the differences between kk and k, tt and t, pp and p.
This thing with the differences between kk and k and so, I know from Hindi and Bengali, they also have a lot of those kh and gh from deep down the throat, almost not possible to differ for the average European throat ...
I always find it interesting to get to know such things! Thanks again for letting me know!
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals” (Mahatma Gandhi)
"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



The Aquila Pomarina Collection
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Today was City birdwatching day in Estonia. Year list record attempting birder Margus Ots in the Birder's March 21 diary refers to report from last year in Tartu, in newspaper Tartu Postimees, headed "Hilisel ärkajal jääb porr nägemata" - Test headline in Google translate !

PS. Headline of course says "Late risers miss treecreeper" :mrgreen:
User avatar
Kitty KCMO
Registered user
Posts: 5717
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:05 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

Post by Kitty KCMO »

Oooooooooo----- hahahahahaha! :rotf: Google Translate strikes again. Hilarious!
Kitty KCMO
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

(Contimuing from Black Stork forum, question about learning Estonian)

"Liis: At a guess, including modern language teaching and taking "learning Estonian" as getting to the level of GT text understanding - one-two years."

Learning the language to be understood, and GT's transfer of text - for want of better word - are two so very different achievements.

Trying to compare averages of understandable but restricted simple Estonian versus GT flashes of advanced Estonian mixed with madness produced the 1-2 years.
But it is like comparing apples and - say - strawberries.

GT's Estonian efforts are a mix of perfection in brief glimpses and a jungle of words.
Google Translate, overall, is a good thing. I use it, even Estonian/English, for its occasional turns of phrase or synonyms that my brain didn't come up with.
I use it as a basis when I need to write in German or French.
GT can be reasonably good even from/to Estonian with simple everyday matters and language.

That said, the point is, Google's Estonian translations are never reliable. It is as bad either way, and not only the Estonian/ English pair; Estonian in any combination seems a tough nut for GT. It is a dangerous mess at times for understanding facts.
Don't even want to think of a GT-based manual.
Wars don't start these days for mistakes in texts - I hope - , but if they did, GT would set it burning. :unsure:
User avatar
alice44
Registered user
Posts: 16489
Joined: April 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm
Location: Oregon, Western USA

Post by alice44 »

I have frequently tried GT, with French, when I got lost, typically with pronouns -- which who is who, typically GT helps not at all. But then I often have this trouble when reading Wikipedia in English -- it reads like it was written by a student trying to sound clever. :slap:

As to flashes of brilliance, I find that with my students -- I am tutoring English as a second language. Sometimes basic grammar confounds but their vocabulary of specific and often wonderful words astounds. As you note sometimes things that are easy to say in Estonian are hard to say in English. GT has no human power to make choices but it can have a huge memory.

I tried to learn a little Latin, but using a couple of dictionaries and human logic I got nowhere :cry:

But still I think I should try to pick up a bit of Estonian vocabulary. It would be fun to know enough to be able to make use of GT for Estonian.
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Estonian seems a particularly difficult case for GT.
I have tried to ask at GT's own forum if there are similar problems with other languages (must be), and which. Answer was - probably with those very far from English in character and structure.
Fair enough as answer, but Turkish, Asian, African people praise GT.
Might be that they never checked ... :mrgreen:
A further guess is that Estonian is after all a very minor language in Google's language supply, and no special (manual) efforts are made to adjust GT and its learning of the language.
GT is said to improve as it goes - collecting more texts into its memory to use. It hasn't, in Estonian; possibly the number of words left untranslated decreases, but general understanding is if anything worse.
I have seldom tested it on - say - simple straightforward blogs or everyday texts or letters. That said, it must be admitted too that Estonians do enjoy grammatical acrobatics, and Estonian provides glorious opportunities for it.

PS. Easy in one language, difficult in another: saying it in one language can lead you down a path that does not fit at all into the other language in translation. You must often think quite differently, "out of the box", long before you get to the difficult word.
Jo UK
Site Admin
Posts: 20684
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
Location: Winchester, UK

Post by Jo UK »

Sirje's posts in Estonian are being transferred to this topic, which is more suitable for language discussion.. We can keep the Black Stork topic for English posts!

Sirje - Tere! Kas siia saabus sama isalind,kes pesitses sellel pesal ka eelmisel aastal? Ehk keegi teab ja vastab.
Tänan juba ette!
User avatar
Kuremari
Registered user
Posts: 5023
Joined: October 11th, 2008, 10:42 am
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by Kuremari »

Sirje wrote:Tere! Kas siia saabus sama isalind,kes pesitses sellel pesal ka eelmisel aastal? Ehk keegi teab ja vastab.
Tänan juba ette!
Hei Sirje, vaata siia http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/12802
ega meiegi täpselt tea! :D aga loodame, et see on Tiit.
Proud member of SHoW (StorkaHolics of the World)
User avatar
Sirje
Registered user
Posts: 28
Joined: March 30th, 2012, 11:09 pm
Location: Estonia

Post by Sirje »

Kuremari wrote: Hei Sirje, vaata siia http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/12802
ega meiegi täpselt tea! :D aga loodame, et see on Tiit.
Aitäh! Rõõmustan ja loodan koos teistega! :loveshower: :loveshower:
User avatar
Sirje
Registered user
Posts: 28
Joined: March 30th, 2012, 11:09 pm
Location: Estonia

Post by Sirje »

Liis wrote: :hi: But Sirje might as well - better, actually - enjoy Urmas on black storks in original Estonian http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/12802 :mrgreen:

Hei, Sirje - lugu on veel parem Urmase oma sõnadega eesti keeles!
Tänan,Liis! Juba lugesin Urmase juttu ja ta annab meile veelgi enam lootust,et see lind on Tiit või Tiina.Mina olen siin foorumis uus,kuigi terve eelmise aasta kevadest sügiseni ikka jälgisin selle paari tegemisi ja poegade kasvatamist,aga kunagi ei kommenteerinud.Vanemad olijad kindlasti tunnevad paremini neid ja lisavad kindlasti siia huvitavaid tähelepanekuid ja videoid.Soovin praegu kõigile head ööd! :sleep:
Jo UK
Site Admin
Posts: 20684
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
Location: Winchester, UK

Post by Jo UK »

translation ... i asked Sirje to take a look on LK main page http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/12804

Tänan,Liis! Juba lugesin Urmase juttu ja ta annab meile veelgi enam lootust,et see lind on Tiit või Tiina.Mina olen siin foorumis uus,kuigi terve eelmise aasta kevadest sügiseni ikka jälgisin selle paari tegemisi ja poegade kasvatamist,aga kunagi ei kommenteerinud.Vanemad olijad kindlasti tunnevad paremini neid ja lisavad kindlasti siia huvitavaid tähelepanekuid ja videoid.Soovin praegu kõigile head ööd! :sleep:[/quote]

Hello Sirje.

Welcome to this forum.

I wonder if there is a way in which we can help you to post in English? Although there are many Estonian members here, there are also a large number of members who do not know the Estonian language, which is why we post in English.
Perhaps you could request help from an Estonian member?
Good luck. Please stay with us so that we can find a way to help you.
User avatar
Sirje
Registered user
Posts: 28
Joined: March 30th, 2012, 11:09 pm
Location: Estonia

Post by Sirje »

Ma arvan,et GOOGLE tõlgib ja pole probleemi.minule küll tõlgib Google inglise keelest eesti keelde ja arvan,et vastupidi on ka võimalik. :D
Jo UK
Site Admin
Posts: 20684
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
Location: Winchester, UK

Post by Jo UK »

Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Changing topics for a moment
Is anyone familiar with the theory of sets terminology :cry: and so could kindly set my translation of the ever-great but adventurous favourite, the Backyard Potterer, right?
http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/12814
User avatar
macdoum
Registered user
Posts: 6786
Joined: November 17th, 2008, 12:12 am
Location: Alsace, France

Post by macdoum »

Liis wrote:Changing topics for a moment
Is anyone familiar with the theory of sets terminology :cry: and so could kindly set my translation of the ever-great but adventurous favourite, the Backyard Potterer, right?
http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/12814
Liis you are heading into deep waters there... a philosophy of phrases. :shock: I would have backed out quickly and made a phrase-of-the-whole. :nod: . Some turn of speech just cannot be translated into another language and still keep its true meaning.
Poor you...you are doing a thankless 'job' and we do realise its difficulties. :nod:
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
Emily Dickinson
User avatar
NancyM
Site Admin
Posts: 5690
Joined: October 14th, 2008, 6:20 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NancyM »

oh, Liis! mathematical sets intersect with profound essays and language translations - that is beautiful! I think you just have to set that essay free,,,
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

NancyM wrote:oh, Liis! mathematical sets intersect with profound essays and language translations - that is beautiful! I think you just have to set that essay free,,,
@ Nancy and Alice - don't I just know it. Deep waters with thinnest-ever ice indeed! :cry:
:wave: But it gives you all a chance to brush up your Estonian when you go to check what the Backyard Potterer, aka as Tiit Kändler, really wrote, in Estonian.

Sorry to have been late with the translation so we missed the chance to go to the Science Cabaret last Thursday which was about language:
"Does language make us tongue-less?", with music by Sparkling Cat.
User avatar
NancyM
Site Admin
Posts: 5690
Joined: October 14th, 2008, 6:20 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NancyM »

I am speechless, Liis :mrgreen:
Post Reply

Return to “Conversations”