How do you say - - ?
- yarko
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Re: How do you say - - ?
Hello,
Liis, i think it's ,lodu' in Estonian - i've been there and seen the place.
But we should ask from Renno for instance - i'll PM him and ask to come here and explanin a bit.
Liis, i think it's ,lodu' in Estonian - i've been there and seen the place.
But we should ask from Renno for instance - i'll PM him and ask to come here and explanin a bit.
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Thank you, all - we are at least getting nearer to know what we get bogged down in.
Bociany:
Yes, I would have voted for bog for the eagle camera, too - slightly too wet on camera, maybe, but after all it has been a watery year.
Yarko:
Lodu would be what in English? Defined as 'Rich in nutrients' - well, on camera the trees seem a little bit undernourished, but with the bits & pieces from all that winter feeding & birds around, OK, could well be.
Arvi:
madalsoo, siirdesoo, kõrgesoo = what, in English? But swamp as a general term - please, my favourite cranberry place can't be a swamp ...
I thought bog / marsh might have to do with acidity, too: bog = peaty= acid, marsh = less so, more & different vegetation
Jo:
yes, The Fens - somewhere I saw a definition of fen as peaty wetland. Was / is that really true of the Fens?
Bociany:
Yes, I would have voted for bog for the eagle camera, too - slightly too wet on camera, maybe, but after all it has been a watery year.
Yarko:
Lodu would be what in English? Defined as 'Rich in nutrients' - well, on camera the trees seem a little bit undernourished, but with the bits & pieces from all that winter feeding & birds around, OK, could well be.
Arvi:
madalsoo, siirdesoo, kõrgesoo = what, in English? But swamp as a general term - please, my favourite cranberry place can't be a swamp ...
I thought bog / marsh might have to do with acidity, too: bog = peaty= acid, marsh = less so, more & different vegetation
Jo:
yes, The Fens - somewhere I saw a definition of fen as peaty wetland. Was / is that really true of the Fens?
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The Fens -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fens
Today, the Fens are a primarily agricultural area which is strongly characterised by both its very low elevation and its flatness, as most of the Fenland lies within a few metres of sea-level. As with similar areas in the Netherlands, much of the Fenland originally consisted of fresh or saltwater wetlands which have been artificially drained and continue to be protected from floods by drainage banks and pumps; with the support of this drainage system, the Fenland has become a major arable agricultural region in Britain for grains and vegetables.
That article goes on to say that the peat areas have shrunk now, due to drainage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fens
Today, the Fens are a primarily agricultural area which is strongly characterised by both its very low elevation and its flatness, as most of the Fenland lies within a few metres of sea-level. As with similar areas in the Netherlands, much of the Fenland originally consisted of fresh or saltwater wetlands which have been artificially drained and continue to be protected from floods by drainage banks and pumps; with the support of this drainage system, the Fenland has become a major arable agricultural region in Britain for grains and vegetables.
That article goes on to say that the peat areas have shrunk now, due to drainage.
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I live very near to Dartmoor - and as with all peaty - acidic uplands - we reserve the term 'Bog' - to an area where it is dangerous to cross!
There is rarely a path - but local people may know the way through - jumping from one clump of turf to another - but strangers could sink right in - never to be seen again!! - so the tale goes - at least animals have been lost!!
Whereas a marsh - although wet and inconvenient - is a useable area - or a valuable feeding area for water birds!
And as Jo says - Fenland is a well managed marshland - drained - and used for agriculture - like the Polders in Netherlands!
Conclusion - I would call the Eagle feeding area - Marshland - or wetlands!!
There is rarely a path - but local people may know the way through - jumping from one clump of turf to another - but strangers could sink right in - never to be seen again!! - so the tale goes - at least animals have been lost!!
Whereas a marsh - although wet and inconvenient - is a useable area - or a valuable feeding area for water birds!
And as Jo says - Fenland is a well managed marshland - drained - and used for agriculture - like the Polders in Netherlands!
Conclusion - I would call the Eagle feeding area - Marshland - or wetlands!!
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yarko wrote:Hello,
Liis, i think it's ,lodu' in Estonian - i've been there and seen the place.
But we should ask from Renno for instance - i'll PM him and ask to come here and explanin a bit.
Hi
quite interesting discussion is ongoing here:)
Arvi explained very well different wetland habitats.
General word for open wet habitats is swamp (soo).
Eaglecam locates on the fen (madalsoo)
Others:
raised bog -raba
transition mire - siirdesoo
quaking bog - õõtsiksoo (sedentary lakes and lakeshores)
lodu ja lamm locates along the rivers or lakes ant these are periodically flooded
- yarko
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Great, renno, thank you!!
Maybe we should post about that issue here too:
About webcam, Food etc
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27
just as short explanation about grounds.
Maybe we should post about that issue here too:
About webcam, Food etc
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27
just as short explanation about grounds.
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Thank you Renno (and everybody)!
I found this place http://loodus.keskkonnainfo.ee:88/English/index_html, Estonian National Clearinghouse Mechanism of Convention for Biological Diversity, no less. With some juggling between the Estonian & English versions about wetlands, their choice seems to be
soo in general = mire
madalsoo = fen;
raba = raised bog;
siirdesoo = transition mire
And the marsh is not there at all.
Part of the problem is probably that the words are used in both everyday language and as more precisely defined terms, and the two don't quite agree.
For me, a mire would be a rather mucky and muddy place, a boggy version of quicksand, fens are something to be found in England, and swamps are unpleasant wetlands with alligators.
PS, Renno - would you say, to an English friend, that you are just off to the eagle fen?
I found this place http://loodus.keskkonnainfo.ee:88/English/index_html, Estonian National Clearinghouse Mechanism of Convention for Biological Diversity, no less. With some juggling between the Estonian & English versions about wetlands, their choice seems to be
soo in general = mire
madalsoo = fen;
raba = raised bog;
siirdesoo = transition mire
And the marsh is not there at all.
Part of the problem is probably that the words are used in both everyday language and as more precisely defined terms, and the two don't quite agree.
For me, a mire would be a rather mucky and muddy place, a boggy version of quicksand, fens are something to be found in England, and swamps are unpleasant wetlands with alligators.
PS, Renno - would you say, to an English friend, that you are just off to the eagle fen?
- NancyM
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In US (American) English, the most common words used in environmental studies and common usage would be "wetlands" or "marsh." Sometimes we distinguish between a fresh-water marsh and a salt-water marsh.Liis wrote:With some juggling between the Estonian & English versions about wetlands, their choice seems to be
soo in general = mire
madalsoo = fen;
raba = raised bog;
siirdesoo = transition mire
And the marsh is not there at all.
We do not use the word "mire" to describe a wetland area - it is sometimes used as a verb: for example, to be mired in debt - meaning to be stuck.
"Fens" or "fen" is not commonly used, either - perhaps that word is used more often in British English (?) Although - there is a place in Boston (Massachusetts) called "the Fenway" and the local baseball team plays in "Fenway Park" ~ but I doubt that the locals really know what a fen is.
- caysa
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http://margalad.wikispaces.com/SOOD
An interesting link....
An interesting link....
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Thanks, nice link, Caysa!
"Maybe we should post about that issue here too:
About webcam, Food etc "
Mr. Looduskalender, Yarko, Renno, others - maybe 1 or 2 presentations of (Estonian) wetlands in Looduskalender?
"Wetland of the month" ? - enough of them for years, :) , http://www.soo.ee/, Sooregister
"Maybe we should post about that issue here too:
About webcam, Food etc "
Mr. Looduskalender, Yarko, Renno, others - maybe 1 or 2 presentations of (Estonian) wetlands in Looduskalender?
"Wetland of the month" ? - enough of them for years, :) , http://www.soo.ee/, Sooregister
- yarko
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I'll ask from Mr Looduskalender.Liis wrote:Thanks, nice link, Caysa!
"Maybe we should post about that issue here too:
About webcam, Food etc "
Mr. Looduskalender, Yarko, Renno, others - maybe 1 or 2 presentations of (Estonian) wetlands in Looduskalender?
"Wetland of the month" ? - enough of them for years, :) , http://www.soo.ee/, Sooregister
...posted fen-information here too: About Cameras, Food etc - added to first post of this topic.
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Help needed! Sinilill?
Hepatica nobilis (used to be Anemone hepatica), this really pretty, much-loved early spring flower that everybody in the north loves & recognizes: is it truly liverwort in English?
Kristel Vilbaste writes so beautifully about finding the first buds, already actually. But liverwort ??
Photo here http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/37
Hepatica nobilis (used to be Anemone hepatica), this really pretty, much-loved early spring flower that everybody in the north loves & recognizes: is it truly liverwort in English?
Kristel Vilbaste writes so beautifully about finding the first buds, already actually. But liverwort ??
Photo here http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/37
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Liis wrote:Help needed! Sinilill?
Hepatica nobilis (used to be Anemone hepatica), this really pretty, much-loved early spring flower that everybody in the north loves & recognizes: is it truly liverwort in English?
Kristel Vilbaste writes so beautifully about finding the first buds, already actually. But liverwort ??
Photo here http://www.looduskalender.ee/node/37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatica
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Thanks, Arvi, yes, I checked that link, and some others too (interesting that the Japanese have taken up cultivation of it).
It seemed unfair? surprising? that this pretty flower has such an uninteresting - to say the least - name in English.
Of course it has a number of folk names in Estonian, the Scandinavian languages etc, too, not all of them pretty. Telling about its uses, rather; people were practical then.
The present 'official' names tell something about how people see it today. Here it says that spring is coming, it has a pretty name. In England - well, what?
Anyway, a lovely, poetic text about spring with a sinilill in it will possibly not be quite the same in English ...
It seemed unfair? surprising? that this pretty flower has such an uninteresting - to say the least - name in English.
Of course it has a number of folk names in Estonian, the Scandinavian languages etc, too, not all of them pretty. Telling about its uses, rather; people were practical then.
The present 'official' names tell something about how people see it today. Here it says that spring is coming, it has a pretty name. In England - well, what?
Anyway, a lovely, poetic text about spring with a sinilill in it will possibly not be quite the same in English ...
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At least in my (US) circle, "liverwort" is used for an entirely different group of plants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marchantiophyta
It could be that some people (but who?!) would use that name for this lovely flower, but I would not. Perhaps call them "anemone" (even if they are no longer in that genus). Some other species are called windflower, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marchantiophyta
It could be that some people (but who?!) would use that name for this lovely flower, but I would not. Perhaps call them "anemone" (even if they are no longer in that genus). Some other species are called windflower, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemone
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Liver wort is a bit of a pest - often non-flowering!!
Whereas Hepatica Nobilis is in the anenome family!
Species
Hepatica nobilis
Hepatica transsilvanica
Hepatica is a genus of herbaceous perennial plants belonging to the buttercup family, Ranunculaceae. A native of central and northern Europe, Asia and northeastern North America, Hepatica is sometimes called liverleaf or "liverwort". It should not be confused with liverworts, which may also be called "Hepaticae". A few botanists include Hepatica within a wider interpretation of Anemone, as Anemone hepatica
Whereas Hepatica Nobilis is in the anenome family!
Species
Hepatica nobilis
Hepatica transsilvanica
Hepatica is a genus of herbaceous perennial plants belonging to the buttercup family, Ranunculaceae. A native of central and northern Europe, Asia and northeastern North America, Hepatica is sometimes called liverleaf or "liverwort". It should not be confused with liverworts, which may also be called "Hepaticae". A few botanists include Hepatica within a wider interpretation of Anemone, as Anemone hepatica
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So you would call it Hepatica? OK, better, a little. Not poetry, exactly, but still.
Yes, the other liverwort can be nasty, to say the least.
Is there a good flora on-line of UK plants? - There is a very good one for Sweden: http://linnaeus.nrm.se/flora/. Sorry, Swedish texts only but you can search by scientific names and also get the name of the species in Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, English, German **(and of course search by names in these languages).
Bociany, I think the white, somewhat later Anemone nemorosa is called wood anemone or sometimes windflower (and Windröschen in Deutsch, I think)
Patsycat: it seems that the Hepatica is not particularly common in UK. Correct?
**PS: Icelandic too, of course!
Yes, the other liverwort can be nasty, to say the least.
Is there a good flora on-line of UK plants? - There is a very good one for Sweden: http://linnaeus.nrm.se/flora/. Sorry, Swedish texts only but you can search by scientific names and also get the name of the species in Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, English, German **(and of course search by names in these languages).
Bociany, I think the white, somewhat later Anemone nemorosa is called wood anemone or sometimes windflower (and Windröschen in Deutsch, I think)
Patsycat: it seems that the Hepatica is not particularly common in UK. Correct?
**PS: Icelandic too, of course!
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I've heard (small birds told me:) that there is a plan that botanist will join LKF to give us specific info about flora if neededBo said: It could be that some people (but who?!) would use that name for this lovely flower...etc
- like we have specialists (renno, kotkalubi, okaskera, Mr Birdfeeder) in other topics.
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Nice!yarko wrote:I've heard (small birds told me:) that there is a plan that botanist will join LKF to give us specific info about flora if needed
Don't you think there are some around already (where would they be, otherwise - any good botanist Internet hangouts?), only they are as shy as the sinilill about writing?
About the Hepatica, sinilill, seems that it is nearly not a native plant in the British Isles at all. Curious, can't see why not (yes, all right, the seeds are mostly spread by ants, and the English Channel is a bit tough for ants, but still).
- caysa
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Pretty interesting....
Liverwort translates into Finnish as both Sinivuokko (Hepatica nobilis) and Maksasammal(that is the moss that is a real pest!).
Sinivuokko also translates into kidneyworth and according to google pics it is the same Hepatica nobilis/common hepatica
Liverwort translates into Finnish as both Sinivuokko (Hepatica nobilis) and Maksasammal(that is the moss that is a real pest!).
Sinivuokko also translates into kidneyworth and according to google pics it is the same Hepatica nobilis/common hepatica