How do you say - - ?

Socialising, getting to know each other.
An Off Topic topic
Post Reply
User avatar
macdoum
Registered user
Posts: 6786
Joined: November 17th, 2008, 12:12 am
Location: Alsace, France

Re: How do you say - - ?

Post by macdoum »

For weeks I intended to show you this page which I find educationnal,entertaining and amusing.
I don't speak the dialect here (only the four letter words,the bad words one always learn,in any language. :mrgreen: )
I would love to hear your reactions (Liis ? )
http://www.lalsace.fr/fr/region/alsace/ ... rassa.html

This article is only explained on the Sunday edition...I keep missing the internet link;until too late. :slap: :whistling:
The dialect is,I understand written mostly phonetically. But it seems from reading this weekly,that all languages are linked in some way. :peek:
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
Emily Dickinson
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

macdoum wrote:For weeks I intended to show you this page which I find educationnal,entertaining and amusing.
I don't speak the dialect here (only the four letter words,the bad words one always learn,in any language. :mrgreen: )
I would love to hear your reactions (Liis ? )
http://www.lalsace.fr/fr/region/alsace/ ... rassa.html
This article is only explained on the Sunday edition...I keep missing the internet link;until too late.
The dialect is,I understand written mostly phonetically. But it seems from reading this weekly,that all languages are linked in some way. :peek:
(Congratulations Granny-twice-over MacDoum! :loveshower: )
Assa-Frassa: well, if it is written and translated, and you know some German & French, not too bad, is it :mrgreen: ?
Only why do all dialects seem to be slur, grunt & mumble variations of the original? A matter of environmentally correct energy saving? Anyone know of a dialect more clearly-spoken than the original?*
Since we are thought to come from the same creature/s, logically all languages too should have the same grunt-and-huff roots. Recent science news: 8 or 10% of our genetic setup is identical with that of viruses ...**

*I think I do, but it seems to be somewhat risky ground to get out on. I will wait for other volunteers. :innocent:
**Edit: Sorry, careless reading. It is not material from our possible very first ancestors the viruses, but bits and pieces that viruses have managed to pass on to us later.
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Not "How do you ..." this time, but "Why do you ..."
... English-speaking call it "saffron milk cap"? :puzzled:
"It" is a mushroom: kuuseriisikas, blodriska, leppärousku.
The sap of all Lactarius deliciosus (and we can include Lactarius deterrimus) that I have ever seen is carrot-coloured, sometimes even more red.
According to Wikipedia it is also called "orange latex milky" in US. I don't think I would pick it there ...
(Seems out of season but isn't quite so - I can explain :innocent: )
User avatar
NancyM
Site Admin
Posts: 5690
Joined: October 14th, 2008, 6:20 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NancyM »

Liis wrote:Not "How do you ..." this time, but "Why do you ..."
some names just are as they are, Liis :whistling:
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

bociany wrote: some names just are as they are, Liis :whistling:
Yes. But saffron is such a very deliberate choice. So is English-speaking saffron different or English-speaking Lactarius, or, hmmm, the eye of the beholder?
(This is a very important mushroom in Estonian mushroom baskets!)
User avatar
macdoum
Registered user
Posts: 6786
Joined: November 17th, 2008, 12:12 am
Location: Alsace, France

Post by macdoum »

Liis wrote:Not "How do you ..." this time, but "Why do you ..."
... English-speaking call it "saffron milk cap"? :puzzled:
"It" is a mushroom: kuuseriisikas, blodriska, leppärousku.
The sap of all Lactarius deliciosus (and we can include Lactarius deterrimus) that I have ever seen is carrot-coloured, sometimes even more red.
According to Wikipedia it is also called "orange latex milky" in US. I don't think I would pick it there ...
(Seems out of season but isn't quite so - I can explain :innocent: )
And even sometimes called synonyme Lactaire Polonais or Vache Rouge.!! (red cow). :!:
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
Emily Dickinson
User avatar
NancyM
Site Admin
Posts: 5690
Joined: October 14th, 2008, 6:20 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NancyM »

person who named it was color-blind? or could not detect nuances? or his specimens were indeed saffron and the name stuck? :book:
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

bociany wrote:person who named it was color-blind? or could not detect nuances? or his specimens were indeed saffron and the name stuck? :book:
Person was probably RICH. Really rich.
The sap of these mushrooms can - with some imagination and lacking carrots - be described as coloured like saffron = the spice before you start using it, but not as coloured with/from/by saffron. Which is what most of us see, and call saffron-coloured.
(If your saffron-spiced dish is red-orange from saffron, it is not good for you, let alone for your account.)
The current price of saffron is 3-4 euro/0,5 g (ground, and most probably "extended", grrrr) so few of us ever look at any heaps of saffron. Kilo price would be 8000 euro ...
I sacrificed one 0,5 gram envelope of saffron, in the interest of science. It was a dark orange-red-brown powder; infusion with water is a clear saffron yellow.

PS. I went to Saffron Walden in England once, just for the name. There were no saffron crocuses there any more, but they have tried to grow them.


MacDoum: "Lactaire polonaise" is nice! Polonaise, as in by Chopin, that is.
Jo UK
Site Admin
Posts: 20685
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
Location: Winchester, UK

Post by Jo UK »

Not about colours or mushrooms, but I just found this.

http://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/inglise.cgi?i ... is&E=1&F=V
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Jo UK wrote:Not about colours or mushrooms, but I just found this.

http://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/inglise.cgi?i ... is&E=1&F=V
Fascinating.
What did you ask it? I don't think it worked quite as it said it would do.

Edit: I guess you tried is this; so it worked, in its own way, and simply neglected this. To get the phrase "is this" one has to use the " ", or underscore, is_this
It certainly has a different vocabulary from the others. I looked for mets (forest, wood) and found the Hundred Acre Wood ...
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

German, English, Estonian and Google translate (GT):
About Carsten Rohde's stork page in German and report on Raivo (Olga's post here)
Google Translate is reasonably OK for German/English, probably also German/French, German/Spanish, Swedish ... .
I did write some unkind words about GT in Forest camera forum; and it is, sadly, practically unusable for Estonian at the moment. But Estonian is different and difficult.
Here are some samples (using Carsten Rohde's page)

German original:
Es gibt Neuigkeiten über "Raivo" zu berichten, dem Schwarzstorch-Männchen aus Estland. Nachdem ich "Raivo" letztmalig am 22.12.2009 im Jezreel Valley nahe Geva (Israel) beobachtet habe und wir eigentlich schon davon ausgegangen sind, dass er in diesem Jahr das Heilige Land nicht mehr verlassen wird - hat er doch noch am 24.12.2009 die Koffer gepackt!

Google translate http://translate.google.com, German to English:
There is news about "Raivo report" to the black stork male from Estonia. After I "Raivo" last time seen on 22.12.2009 in the Jezreel Valley near Geva (Israel) and we've actually already assumed that he in that year the Holy Land will not leave - he's still on the 24.12.2009 suitcase packed!

“Manual” translation, German to English
There are news about Raivo, the male black stork from Estonia. After I observed Raivo last time, on 22 Dec 2009 in Jezreel Valley near Geva (Israel), we had really presumed that he wouldn’t leave the Holy Land any more in this year – but then he packed his suitcase [and left] on December 24!

Estonian to English by Google Translate (German to Estonian "manually" transl.):
There is more news to rage, the Estonian black stork isaslinnust. In addition, if the rage last 22/12/2009, I had Jezreeli valley, close to the Geva (Israel) and we made the decision that he no longer holy land this year, do not leave - he packed his suitcases, however, a total of 24/12/2009
Mostly it is even worse ... ARGGHHH! :banghead: :mrgreen:

PS. By "reasonably OK" I mean understandable (as the original writer meant, hopefully ...), not grammatically correct
Jo UK
Site Admin
Posts: 20685
Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
Location: Winchester, UK

Post by Jo UK »

Oh Liis, that Google muddle is so funny!!

I love to listen to two languages, even though I don't understand the words. I love the sound of Greek and Estonian languages.
User avatar
alice44
Registered user
Posts: 16489
Joined: April 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm
Location: Oregon, Western USA

Post by alice44 »

Just imagine what a pickle someone could get themselves in to with that mess. (I am not sure where the pickle thing comes from -- maybe the way pickles are packed tightly into the crock when they are getting made.) All the students I worked with from Asia had hand converters, I bet at least some of them were not much better.
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

Yes, Jo, it is funny! And sometimes I lose much time on trying to figure out what made Google Translate produce a particular translation.
But it is sad too, because GT was on its way to learn quite useful Estonian, after the rather shaky start one year ago.
Now, after their "technical update", we are back on square 1 and worse. A few of us grumble in the GT forum. But that is as a mosquito on a mammoth.
alice44 wrote:Just imagine what a pickle someone could get themselves in to with that mess. ... -- ...All the students I worked with from Asia had hand converters, I bet at least some of them were not much better.
Oh yes, Alice, that is what even scares me. GT is a fantastic enterprise, and a great help when you know something of the languages involved and can edit. But people on the GT forum write gratefully that they use it for business and whole web pages, obviously for totally unknown languages .
Hmmm - is that an explanation to all those impossible manuals & help texts?
User avatar
alice44
Registered user
Posts: 16489
Joined: April 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm
Location: Oregon, Western USA

Post by alice44 »

I forgot I have a friend who was using it to translate legal papers from German to English :shock:

I try it occasionally when I can't quite tell which what is what pronoun wise -- :shock: -- in a French text. The translated form usually leaves me with exactly the same question.
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

alice44 wrote:I forgot I have a friend who was using it to translate legal papers from German to English :shock: .
Quite OK probably, as raw material for editing. English/German (and any language reasonably similar to English) are not so horrible, plus the system probably has masses of parallel legal texts to go on (all the EU paperwork ...). As said, GT doesnt't translate with dictionary & grammar, it compares and tries to match snatches of text.
alice44 wrote:I try it occasionally when I can't quite tell which what is what pronoun wise -- :shock: -- in a French text. The translated form usually leaves me with exactly the same question.
I nearly always use it for German: the "der, die, das" :mrgreen:. GT may choose crazy words, but it is surprisingly good at that** (I am not). And you get the text written for editing: more fun than typing.
So, GT is a good thing, only never, ever to be trusted unchecked.
Edit: * both good at picking crazy words, and doing der, die, das right :mrgreen:
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

"Eesti bioloogilise mitmekesisuse teabevõrgustik"
shall be translated as - take a deep breath:
Estonian national Clearning-House Mechanism of Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD-CHM)
:mrgreen:
(LK article on biodiversity year)
Liis
Registered user
Posts: 1837
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Post by Liis »

"Why do I say ..." rather than "How do you say ...?" this time :innocent:
The elks, moose, deer, linguistics and whatever else are now here, having hopefully arrived safe and sound from Seal camera.

About arriving: in 1655, 3 elks (moose) from the Åland islands - between Sweden & Finland - were caught and shipped to London as a gift to the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell from the Swedish king Karl X Gustav. Can´t find out what became of them. :book: - help, anyone?
Some sources say 1658, but my most reliable one says 1655; in 1658 instead 8 more elks, also from Aland, were sent to the Netherlands. Hello, Dutch members - what did you do with them?
Imagine capturing and shipping 3 or 8 elks (moose), in these days, without sedatives.

As said, there is not an absolutely "right" English word for Alces alces: moose or (European) elk. Alice and other NA English speakers: of course you go on using moose.
(Alice: "moose" to me gives a picture of a rather leggy, stumbly, big thing - sort of teenager)
I will probably use elk, because 1) I try to keep to UK or EU European English 2) "elk"= Alces alces does have a long history and priority in UK/EU English 3) it is good to keep it alive for a while, to remind that it is/was not necessarily used only ignorantly, by people who think elks=wapitis walk around in N. Europe ...
There are very heated debates indeed :shock: on the Internet. Mostly, I am afraid, with moose adherents swinging murderous clubs & guns at elk writers.

Only "moose" for Alces alces might be acceptable in time, maybe. Less so with "elk" for wapiti: it is a word already used for Alces alces and makes for more misunderstandings. Back soon with J. Caesar & Mr. Leif Eriksson & other authorities :mrgreen: !

Ame: as Kuremari wrote, all your posts were fun and interesting. Anyway, no problems with "boring" text posts, they load quickly compared to images, and anyone can as quickly decide that they are not interested. But "hirvi", Bambi, for älg/põder/elk (moose)? I am shocked!
User avatar
Fleur
Registered user
Posts: 35394
Joined: November 11th, 2009, 10:01 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Fleur »

what our ancestors have done since them, I would not really know. would anyone in history to find.
I know that here in the Hoge Veluwe noble deer run, and deer throughout the country.

You can still see that almost everything here is translated as deer or elk.
difficult for me to translate that case well.

it is really difficult for me to find the right name, and translate.
otherwise confusing again :blush:
anyone else?
Dryw
Registered user
Posts: 410
Joined: March 2nd, 2009, 5:31 pm
Location: Netherlands

Post by Dryw »

The recently 1980?) imported moose/elks are now in Lelystad Natuurpark.Lelystad is situated in the polder that was made in the former Zuiderzee. When they build a highway, they used the sand from a place they did not know what to do with it yet. During the time (years) they were thinking and thinking, nature got its way. Trees and plants started growing and all kinds of animals, especialy birds are living there now.
btw the moose are doing fine.

The settlers learned the word moose from the native-americans, the socalled Algonquian anguage. Perhaps the word moose came with the first inhabitans of America, who came from eastern Asia in the ice-age
Post Reply

Return to “Conversations”