Discussion of Hunting

Discussions about all issues like transmitters, ringing, hunting
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juta
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Re: Discussion of Hunting

Post by juta »

Caysa, here are very different people and different opinions. This topic was opened more for discussing about it in general. Something like to hunt, or not to hunt? Not about trophies. As you see your picture brought several reactions. Negative and positive. Not to offend you personally.
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terrytvgal
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Post by terrytvgal »

caysa wrote: Did you mean that in this "Discussion of Hunting" it was wrong of me to tell about the deer my husband got???
OK..............
Sorry, I can see that it is not a popular thing.
I do not think it was wrong to report on the Deer your husband got. How do we talk about a topic if we do not want to talk about the whole subject? It is hard to see any dead animal, but how do we talk about hunting and avoid dead animals? :puzzled:

I would not go out to hunt. But I would go out to catch fish. Fishing is also hunting -- in both we catch the wild creature to eat it. Is fishing good and hunting bad?

Kuremari said:

"and sorry,you healthy meat people, i just can`t understand the source of your happiness"

I only say this because it would be very wrong to kill the deer and NOT eat the meat... sometimes this can happen and then I get very, very angry at the hunters.
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Post by NancyM »

terrytvgal wrote:
I do not think it was wrong to report on the Deer your husband got. How do we talk about a topic if we do not want to talk about the whole subject? It is hard to see any dead animal, but how do we talk about hunting and avoid dead animals? :puzzled:
very well said, terry.

I do not especially like to see pictures of hunters and their kill, and I admit that I am reluctant to even think about the situation. But in truth, I eat meat, and it comes from some animal. So I conclude that my problem is only with myself and my own cowardice.

Hopefully this forum will accommodate all opinions, and no one will feel pressured to change their voice because of what another person might think. Isn't it wonderful that we can all say what we think? That is a great gift in itself.
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caysa
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Post by caysa »

I want to tell you about what really is going on.
In the area where we live there is far too many deer. Every day there are accidents happening on the roads. The deer are moving around because they have a hard time to find a space of their own. People get injured and sometimes die in these accidents. We have trained our labradors to track injured animals and whenever it is needed we get out with the dogs to find the injured animals. There are not enough skilled hunters to keep the deer population to a safe number. My husband decided he wants to help as we have had encounters with deer ourselves too, luckily not being injured. He spent a lot of money to get a licence for the gun (that includes training and a certificate). The gun also costs a lot of money.
When he finally shot his first deer it was a clean shot and there was no suffering for the deer, which is not what happens when it gets injured in the road traffic! I think he has the right to be proud. Not that he has KILLED but that he has been able to do something for the safety and for the balance in the nature. My husband does NOT enjoy killing and it takes a real man to be able to do that when it is necessary.
All our family is very interested in wildlife and even the grandkids know a lot already. They know that animals should not be disturbed and they know a lot of species already. (For example my 2½ year old granddaughter sat on my lap when the fox took the meat yesterday. She said: Look, the fox took the meat. What is the buzzard gonna eat now???? )
Then about the meat from what is hunted: Isn’t that the most ethic meat we can have? All organic from an animal that has lived a good life in freedom? I prefer that to eating meat from animals that have been inside barns all their life!! The young calves do not even get their own mothers milk…..
Hunting is reality – it means safer roads and more balance in the nature. We do not have enough predators to take care of the extra deer etc. No one wants the wolfs in their backyard either….
If we do not accept this – it is like hiding our heads in the sand….
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juta
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Post by juta »

Thank you for this post Caysa. This kind of ethical questions is hard to solve. I have thought about it a lot. I mean a question about eating meat and wear fur which I do both.
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Olga
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Post by Olga »

Hi, Caysa! I agree with you. You said what I had in my mind:
Not that he has KILLED but that he has been able to do something for the safety and for the balance in the nature. My husband does NOT enjoy killing and it takes a real man to be able to do that when it is necessary.
I do believe you!

I liked the picture, and thought that your husband has every right to be proud! And he looked nice man! :) . Killing animals is not 'enjoyable', but something else, many things, that hunters know best. They have learned it in practice, not only from books with pictures.

There only is something what made me feel doubtful: All people don't want to go not even to look the hunter's pages, they don't want to see pictures of shot animals. To look at killed animals should be a voluntary option.

I know the situation here in Southern Finland. Deers and Moose has to be hunted, they do not have space enough. We see deers here aroud our house every night. There are moose too. I huge moose mother ( with calf) has jumped over the dogfence to our garden, my husband was in life danger be cause he fell on the icy ground just in front of the moose's feet . Our dogs saved us chasing the moose away.
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Post by Jo UK »

Maybe the lesson we learn from this little episode is that discussion is essential to help us understand all the ramifications of this topic, but pictures of dead animals make some people uncomfortable?

Caysa, maybe you could offer to send that picture by PM to those who would like to see it? I, for one, would like to study it again, please! I may delete it later today, but it would be good to see it again. Thanks.
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Post by yarko »

Thanks caysa for that long post!
Bo is right - discussion is what we need - and that's what we have here! Great.

I was thinking about juta's fur-comment.
My opinion is that in many situations wearing a fur is justified . Northern areas for example..but where runs the line between Northern and other areas?
I'm definitely against raising animals for fashion industry.
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Post by yarko »

Little bit off topic but sort of reply to terrytvgal's comment about fishing - yes it's also 'hunting'.
i have to say that i especyally distaste 'catch and realease' fishing - that's became quite popular lately. All that stress to fish just for excitement of fisher?
Fishing>eating is another thing.
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Post by Kuremari »

OK Caysa, point taken!
you should have posted the story with your photo.
avoided lots of trouble.
i understand all what you say, but it does not change my opinion.
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Ricky
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Post by Ricky »

caysa wrote: When he finally shot his first deer it was a clean shot and there was no suffering for the deer, which is not what happens when it gets injured in the road traffic!
Exactly. What is better for any animal (included the human being)? I slow torturous death (e.g. traffic accident) or a fast death without pain? Everyone would choose the second way of dying. For a deer for example that means to be shot.
caysa wrote: I think he has the right to be proud. Not that he has KILLED but that he has been able to do something for the safety and for the balance in the nature. My husband does NOT enjoy killing and it takes a real man to be able to do that when it is necessary.
Yes, you/your husband are absolutely right.

We do not hunt in order to kill, no, we kill in order to have hunted. Killing is not easy - I admit. A hunter who thinks differently in that point either lies or is a brutal killing "machine".
caysa wrote:Then about the meat from what is hunted: Isn’t that the most ethic meat we can have? All organic from an animal that has lived a good life in freedom? I prefer that to eating meat from animals that have been inside barns all their life!! The young calves do not even get their own mothers milk…..
Yes, I also wanted to write that earlier. Glad that did it now.

Best wishes, Ricky


P.S.: I would love to see your picture, too. :nod:
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Post by Jo UK »

Caysa has kindly made that picture available to us as a link to photobucket. This is a picture of a dead deer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/caysa/peura1.jpg

In future, it shall be forum policy that similar images of dead animals or birds should be linked to an image hosting site (such as photobucket, or whatever is convenient for you). Please include a warning about contents of the image, as sensitive people may be distressed by the picture.
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Post by caysa »

Jo UK wrote:Caysa has kindly made that picture available to us as a link to photobucket. This is a picture of a dead deer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/caysa/peura1.jpg

In future, it shall be forum policy that similar images of dead animals or birds should be linked to an image hosting site (such as photobucket, or whatever is convenient for you). Please include a warning about contents of the image, as sensitive people may be distressed by the picture.
Thank You, Jo :2thumbsup:
I hope this will make everybody happy - and I am truly sorry that I did upset some of you, it was not what I intended :blush:
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Post by yarko »

caysa wrote: Thank You, Jo :2thumbsup:
I hope this will make everybody happy - and I am truly sorry that I did upset some of you, it was not what I intended :blush:
caysa i'm sure everyone here understands that 'upsetting' wasn't your intention at all.
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Post by NancyM »

caysa, thank you for your post explaining the situation where you live. It seems your husband is doing a good service in your area. That was a very scary incident with the moose - did the dogs get a special treat that night?
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Post by terrytvgal »

caysa wrote: Thank You, Jo :2thumbsup:
I hope this will make everybody happy - and I am truly sorry that I did upset some of you, it was not what I intended :blush:
This is Very Fair! I know how you feel, Caysa. Last summer I was asked to post a picture to inform people about avian pox. Many people thought it was too graphic for the unsuspecting reader. I did not intend to upset people but sometimes the realities of life are hard to look at, even when we must.
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Post by terrytvgal »

yarko wrote:Little bit off topic but sort of reply to terrytvgal's comment about fishing - yes it's also 'hunting'.
i have to say that i especyally distaste 'catch and realease' fishing - that's became quite popular lately. All that stress to fish just for excitement of fisher?
Fishing>eating is another thing.
I know, Yarko. It seems strange to me also. I have mixed thoughts. If the fish is too small the fisherman must throw it back into the water. The idea is that the fish will be OK and grow up to reproduce. But no one does any follow-up to know if these fish actually live. :slap:

Humans are not so perfect, but as long as we try to live with wildlife the best way we know how we will keep learning and be able to make better choices in the future.
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Post by caysa »

bociany wrote:caysa, thank you for your post explaining the situation where you live. It seems your husband is doing a good service in your area. That was a very scary incident with the moose - did the dogs get a special treat that night?
That was a very scary incident with the moose - did the dogs get a special treat that night?
This happened to renandeli who also lives in Finland... But we have had moose in our garden too but thankfully no danger situations.
Once tho - one spring a few years ago.... I was walking in the wood behind our house, had one labrador with me... Suddenly I see the dog standing all still and sniffing. I went closer to see what it was. A moose mother that had given birth to one calf and the second one was just coming out! That was so amazing!!! But we quickly turned around and left!!
I was very happy that I had only a labrador with me - she was clever enough to keep quiet - the welsh corgies might have started to bark.....
But I will always treasure the memory of what I saw!
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Post by terrytvgal »

What a special memory, Caysa!
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Post by Olga »

bociany wrote:caysa, thank you for your post explaining the situation where you live. It seems your husband is doing a good service in your area. That was a very scary incident with the moose - did the dogs get a special treat that night?
certainly. They have self esteem by nature, but now they felt themselves highest important. They were not any more only our sweet furry and soft pet dogs, but the only ones in our family who knew how to treat a furious moose cow running towards with eyes almost out of head. I think all the participants of the mess were full of fear but the dogs behaved wisely, as if they were wholly fearless. We shut up the whole day, were as if we had been scared for some hours later on and thanked all the gods around the universe for our two lafesavers.
(the calf had been standing there under the tree behind the fense, furry and beautiful, it was about one year old..but then we saw how they run away into forest, like two boats with feet..and we almost fell on our knees)
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