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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 4th, 2011, 8:30 am 
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unp wrote:
Judging by what is shown here there are 22 common English names for 175 UK native Inocybe species.

There seems to be no logical pattern. Inocybe impexa (map is here) has been observed 8 times (Inocybe fraudans, 302 times) and has no common name while Inocybe fibrosa, only 7 but is known as Silky Fibrecap.

All hope is not lost though. Work is underway to give them all names. A delicate and awesome task.

Thank you, unp - as ever, admirable research and solid facts!
A delicate and formidable task indeed. And less than successful names may come about - as the pretty bluebell, Hyacinthoides non-scripta, of British springtime bluebell woods, prosaically labelled "drooping pseudohyacinth" (longus ebahüatsint) in Estonian. - To avoid international diplomatic incidents it must be said that it does have the alternative name of "drooping blue lily" (longus siniliilia).

But is there less need of common names in English? Are some things in nature less talked about in English? A language has words for what people talk about, to some extent. Berry and mushroom collecting are certainly more northern European pastimes. Or - maybe there are more learned societies in English-speaking countries and the somewhat less "popular" creatures such as obscure fungi, minimal insects, night-time moths have been left to the members who are perfectly happy with the scientific ("Latin") names. :innocent:

PS. Oh YES, Alice, they do change names. Throwing out all our laboriously learnt Latin names. The institute where I worked once shared buildings with molecular biologists. Their greatest joy was to reevaluate relationships, be it primulas or mammoths


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 5th, 2011, 7:40 am 
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Red or black elderberries?
Which are edible? Red in Estonia, it seems.
Red are poisonous, I have been taught. The black have always been used in Sweden and Denmark for fruit syrup - to be diluted with water for drinking - and occasionally jam. I think one of my French cookbooks too has a recipe for "Sirop", with blacks.
Has anyone tried and compared red and black? Blacks are ripening, but reds are long gone in Sweden. Or eaten by the birds.

(Same discussion, in German, in the German corner :innocent: )


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 6th, 2011, 9:17 pm 
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:hi: Hello Liis,

I was thinking about it too, yes. In Germany it is said that black elderberries are edible when cooked or fermented. And I must say that my friend and I are enthusiastic about yogurt with either the flowers or the berries of black elder. The flowers taste very fresh and sweet and the taste of yogurt with berries is similar to that with blueberries. :whistling: You can buy it in the shops for organic food.
I don't know if you know what "hollerküchle" are, the umbels of the flowering black elder fried after dipping into thin batter. I never had the chance to eat them but they are said to be very tasty. :book:

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 7th, 2011, 9:30 am 
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Nobody from Denmark (Hyldebaerssaft) or UK (elderberry wine etc) standing up in defence of the true elder (the blackberried one)?
leonia wrote:
:hi: Hello Liis,

I was thinking about it too, yes. In Germany it is said that black elderberries are edible when cooked or fermented. And I must say that my friend and I are enthusiastic about yogurt with either the flowers or the berries of black elder. The flowers taste very fresh and sweet and the taste of yogurt with berries is similar to that with blueberries. :whistling: You can buy it in the shops for organic food.
I don't know if you know what "hollerküchle" are, the umbels of the flowering black elder fried after dipping into thin batter. I never had the chance to eat them but they are said to be very tasty. :book:

:wave: A Czech friend used to put some black elder flowers on the uncooked side of pancakes before turning them - same idea as elderflower fritters. And elderflower syrup (cordial, "saft") is delicious.

But black - poisonous?
The quite similar Dwarf Elder (Ebulus annulus) may have been mistaken for proper blackberried elder sometimes. All agree it is poisonous.

But mainly it seems that both the red-berried and the black-berried elder berries are toxic when unripe, or more specifically, the toxic quality is tied to a green colour in the berries, maybe whole plant, certainly in the seeds. When the berries of the black-berried elder ripen, the green colour of seeds, and toxicity, disappears. The seeds of the red-berried elder stay green and not good for you. (from report on promoting elder cultivation in Sweden).


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 7th, 2011, 9:30 pm 
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My father used to make "Hollersekt" (sparkling wine made of elder flowers). So absolutely delicious, it's one of the things I miss of him very much! And Hollerküchle we also made. Delicious! Sometimes you get them in rural restaurants when the elder flowers. But they are never as good as the home made ones!

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 8th, 2011, 9:16 pm 
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Felis silvestris wrote:
My father used to make "Hollersekt" (sparkling wine made of elder flowers). So absolutely delicious, it's one of the things I miss of him very much! And Hollerküchle we also made. Delicious! Sometimes you get them in rural restaurants when the elder flowers. But they are never as good as the home made ones!

A secret, Felis - well made elderflower cordial ("saft") diluted with sparkling wine, or champagne :innocent: , can be a quite passable imitation of Hollersekt or elderberry champagne ... served with ice cubes with little elder flowers frozen into them (hmm - and minus all the little black mites and flies and spiders). - The black elder berry clusters have a beautiful structure too, like a water spray from a fountain.
It isn't native in Estonia, nor in Norway or Finland. But it does grow in northern Africa! Map HERE


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 10th, 2011, 9:14 pm 
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Liis wrote:
A secret, Felis - well made elderflower cordial ("saft") diluted with sparkling wine, or champagne :innocent: , can be a quite passable imitation of Hollersekt or elderberry champagne ... served with ice cubes with little elder flowers frozen into them (hmm - and minus all the little black mites and flies and spiders). - The black elder berry clusters have a beautiful structure too, like a water spray from a fountain.
It isn't native in Estonia, nor in Norway or Finland. But it does grow in northern Africa! Map HERE


During summer I always keep a bottle of elder syrup in the fridge, even without the alcohol, filled up with sparkling water (ice cold) and a dash of lime it is a very refreshing summer drink! :whistling: The special treat is with "Sekt" (sparkling wine) - champagne being a bit out of my financial range :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 15th, 2011, 7:42 pm 
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The blackberry (?) season is here again.
No-one from UK - nor Denmark - stepped up in defence of the black elderberry that was labelled poisonous.
Now, worse has come. Blackberries are no particular delicacy, it is stated; although they can be eaten if you are out rambling and get thirsty. :peek:


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 16th, 2011, 8:53 pm 
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Hello Liis,
blackberries are sweet only when they get enough sunshine, otherwise they taste like nothing. If there was a long rain period they can even here in Bavaria be dark and large but not tasty or even delicious. :unsure:

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 17th, 2011, 12:38 am 
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I'm a bit late posting this but I saw these pages in another context...

http://champagne-ardenne.lpo.fr/agenda_ ... sureau.htm

Elderberry so useful for everything (exept maybe washing your socks.. :mrgreen: ).
Read also that if you hang a branch above the stable door,it will prevent the Plague. :rolleyes:

I hope I have posted the translated (from French) version.

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 17th, 2011, 9:19 am 
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macdoum wrote:
I'm a bit late posting this but I saw these pages in another context...

http://champagne-ardenne.lpo.fr/agenda_ ... sureau.htm

Elderberry so useful for everything (exept maybe washing your socks.. :mrgreen: ).
Read also that if you hang a branch above the stable door,it will prevent the Plague. :rolleyes:

I hope I have posted the translated (from French) version.

Thanks, Macdoum! - it was French, but another language always puts a bit of gloss on things :innocent: .
"Ce purin (from elder leaves) aurait également le pouvoir de repousser les rongeurs (souris, mulots et campagnols)": I will print this and distribute in our mice and vole communities! Meanwhile they live very happily among elder roots, leaves and debris, with forays to appletree bark and tulip bulbs :vangry: .


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 17th, 2011, 10:49 am 
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leonia wrote:
Hello Liis,
blackberries are sweet only when they get enough sunshine, otherwise they taste like nothing. If there was a long rain period they can even here in Bavaria be dark and large but not tasty or even delicious. :unsure:

Hmmm. One conclusion is then that they get plenty of sunshine in England? It might be time to revise our concept of British weather ...


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 24th, 2011, 11:14 pm 
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Oaks and acorns - plenty in the street where I live. High trees too, so every now and then at night there is a plop - plop of acorns falling on parked cars, loud and clear ... Well, it might have been horse chestnuts! At least no car owners have yet demanded that the trees should be removed.
But trees elsewhere have been removed, rumour says secretly poisoned by apartment owners who want a clear view of the water. However, city is buying seriously BIG trees to replace the killed ones :mrgreen: .


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 25th, 2011, 8:16 am 
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Liis wrote:
Oaks and acorns - plenty in the street where I live. High trees too, so every now and then at night there is a plop - plop of acorns falling on parked cars, loud and clear ... Well, it might have been horse chestnuts! At least no car owners have yet demanded that the trees should be removed.
But trees elsewhere have been removed, rumour says secretly poisoned by apartment owners who want a clear view of the water. However, city is buying seriously BIG trees to replace the killed ones :mrgreen: .

People!
What they need is a brand new arctic circle growing durian tree -- or something like that -- something big and stinky to fall on cars.
I suppose in specific places with a view trees limit value, but the studies I have seen is that not only do trees do great things for water run off they greatly increase property values.

I haven't looked at the few big oaks we have round here abouts. I hope it is good year.


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 25th, 2011, 5:58 pm 
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Seemes we have a good year for acorns here. I already found a lot and hazel nuts too to feed our squirrels in winter. No need to buy them. They planted a sort of tree hazel from southeast Europe as alley trees around here. They have a cluster of fruit, are not as tasty as the bush hazels, but I'll try them for the feeder. :shake:

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 2:30 pm 
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So, finally, one more contribution towards explaining the very varying opinions of the taste of blackberries. Looduskalender said, no sensation, might be useful if you are thirsty and out on a ramble. But for instance on the Swedish west coast your own blackberry patch, not to be picked by outsiders, and in the old days visited in very early morning to get the berries, is jealously guarded.
(Some more comments a few posts back in this topic).

Estonian experts say that the Rubus nessensis - named after Loch Ness, of Nessie fame - is indeed very common, maybe the commonest species/subspecies/ ... in Estonia. And it has no remarkable taste, even when fully ripe. It is not very common in Sweden, or UK, or Ireland, or Denmark.
(The Estonian name, kitsemurakas, means "goat cloudberry" :mrgreen: )


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 6:09 pm 
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Location: Germany - In the Middle Rhine Valley
...there are a lot of edible wild fruits around us, Liis - which in fact do not taste as if they'd be...
Another example I remember is the wild apple Malus sylvestris which nowadays in Germany is used as a decorative tree along small-traffic streets. Nevertheless, it's edible in cooked or dried form, and perhaps contents more healthy substances than some modern cultivated apple. :unsure: But who does know this??
http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mets-õunapuu is only a poor translation in eesti keeles - think it is not known in Estonia.

Now to an actual LK article!
"Kalendrisügise alustuseks" (To the beginning of calendar autumn) of Sept 23 is about „vananaistesuve“ (old wives summer).
How remarkable! Same word in 3 languages??
With this request I will turn to another forum's thread: Social/Conversation/http://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20

Autumn in its early days lets us call to mind in Germany that cold nights are back again - the air is smelling of over-mature fruit and somehow "earthy" (as the farmers are busy with their fields), the swallows, white storks and other daily birds are suddenly off - if you live offside of cities.
When I was living in Hamburg (2nd-large city with over 1 mill. inhabitants), I had only a little chance to be aware of the seasons, concerning smell or nature colours. But esp. in autumn, in very silent nights only, you could hear the by-passing cranes high at the skies.

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 6:10 pm 
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And to mushrooms... very fascinating topic, again to find on Social Corner
http://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20 with a discussion on vocabulary for how you say if you're collecting them. Each language has a row of precise words. In Germany in common I'd say "sammeln" to all kinds of collecting things (edible or not) - but precise expressions we have more than a handful.

But here, not to forget about Tchernobyl!? I was just on forgetting about when Fukushima happened, as in Germany there is not too much attention on radiation exposure of hunted animals or mushrooms anymore. Measurements on mushrooms only are made on imported products from Eastern Europe, as they are mostly of uncultivated origin.
Now, what about the handling in Estonia?
Concerning the "Rouge Seenepäevad" there where cooking hours or teaching of receipts part of it. It doesn't seem that radiation exposure is a topic in Estonia anymore?

Regretfully, you will not get fresh mushrooms to buy if you don't live in Southern Germany with large wild mushrooms appearances or near the big importing centers.
It's been publicated a lot about cultivated m. (here the agaricus) which are sold in a mainly bad state. The large duration from harvesting to selling is to blame.

So myself I've collected and prepared mushrooms the last time many years ago. What a pitty!

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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 6:38 pm 
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Katinka wrote:
---------------------...there are a lot of edible wild fruits around us, Liis - which in fact do not taste as if they'd be...
Another example I remember is the wild apple Malus sylvestris which nowadays in Germany is used as a decorative tree along small-traffic streets. Nevertheless, it's edible in cooked or dried form, and perhaps contents more healthy substances than some modern cultivated apple. :unsure: But who does know this??
http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mets-õunapuu is only a poor translation in eesti keeles - think it is not known in Estonia.

No problem about the R. nessensis blackberry taste actually - it tastes (probably) just as it should, being the species it is. Which seems to be one explanation of the very different opinions of blackberry culinary value :innocent: . Apart from factors such as sunshine, habitat etc., etc. In Sweden the R. plicatus has been named "sweet blackberry". - It is simply interesting that a species has developed so differently in so nearby countries. The species, subspecies and what-not are a truly tangled web, btw, subject of several doctoral theses!
Mets-õunapuu, "forest or wild apple tree" is quite OK; it might of course be called "metsik õunapuu", wild apple tree, but I think that would tend to suggest naturalised apple tree.
And yes, they do exist in Estonia. Only the genetics and precise origins of today's "wild" apple trees are probably highly complicated and somewhat mixed up!

PS. Sorry if I have missed in translations that the correct English name of Malus sylvestris is Crab apple. :blush: Sometimes I hope that I know, and don't check ...


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 Post subject: Re: Ideas from the Front Page
PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 8:16 pm 
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Katinka wrote:
I was just on forgetting about when Fukushima happened, as in Germany there is not too much attention on radiation exposure of hunted animals or mushrooms anymore. Measurements on mushrooms only are made on imported products from Eastern Europe, as they are mostly of uncultivated origin.


Hello Katinka! :wave:
In Bavaria you won't find any hunter who does not know about this. Wild boars hunted here are not edible because of high rates of becquerel, same with gathered bavarian mushrooms too: both have to be brought to officials for to messure. Bavaria got a lot of the Tchernobyl output, more than the rest of Germany. :puzzled:

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