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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 26th, 2009, 6:08 am 
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alice44 wrote:
Jo UK wrote:
LOL, Liis.
I have just been reading about "twitchers" in UK, who rushed off to see a rare bird.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8323930.stm

I don't think Americans use the word twitcher. I think most serious birders would know it, but I do not know what word we do use.



agreed, alice - when I first came across the word "twitcher" I had no idea it meant "birder." All those reports of twitchers rushing here and there, I thought it might be some new cult (and I guess it is).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 26th, 2009, 9:35 am 
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Bociany - Does birder mean the same thing as twitcher or bonger then? What is a birder, really? Are twitchers a subspecies of birders?

Olga - about the origins of bongare (by the way, Google mostly says venomous Indian snake): I had hazy thoughts about something to do with bong = a sort of coupon or marker in systems used in horse racing and restaurant kitchens (before computers, of course).
Anyway, Estbirding seems to be quite happy about describing its members as bongers (or bongars?).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 26th, 2009, 10:30 am 
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I google bonger and got a mallet used for massage.

So I was thinking that like twitcher it signifies not standing still --bouncing from sighting to sighting.

A birder is more or less anyone who watches birds -- a twitcher is a addict. (My dad is a pretty serious birder (but never a twitcher) although about 15 years ago after a long drive to and along the coast in search of a reported rare bird, he decided that he could not take the guilt of wasting all those resources -- just to sight one rare bird.)

I was birding in Texas once when we ran into, (or they ran into us -- we were walking) some young German men and an Englishman and a few Americans all thrilled about seeing a Green Kingfisher -- which was dang cool -- they were so EXCITED it was like a concert or... I don't really know. We were there by accident and had no idea we were seeing a bird a bit north of its normal territory.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 26th, 2009, 10:57 am 
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Also, they are described as competitive birders (an article on competitive birding "Some aspects of birding not always environmentally friendly, professor says":

"Schaffner notes that competitive birding became popular in the United States in the 1950s, evolving out of what he calls the "automotive-hobby culture," in which enthusiasts were motivated as much by their sense of adventure and ready access to large sedans and cheap gas as they were by an interest in tracking their feathered friends.

"Part of the thrill was driving around the country in automobiles," Schaffner said. "Competitive birders log many hours in their cars. Some even flly to spot a single species of bird."

"However, competitive birding was a direct outgrowth of the more genteel pastime of bird-watching, which Schaffner said dates to the late 19th century." http://www.physorg.com/news169909562.html),

bird listers/birdlisters, (rare) bird chasers/birdchasers - http://birdchaser.blogspot.com/2006/05/listing.html - largely introducing a book mentioned below (birdchasers without 'rare' may be a little confusing as there are also those who chase birds away at airports), obsessive birders ("To See Every Bird on Earth: A Father, a Son, and a Lifetime Obsession" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159463 ... e&n=283155).

Wouldn't be surprised if there are many more names to this passion, just waiting to be found.

PS :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong - linked to an obsession/addiction? :puzzled: (Naw, wouldn't think so)


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 26th, 2009, 7:02 pm 
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[quote="Liis":WT?]Bociany - Does birder mean the same thing as twitcher or bonger then? What is a birder, really? Are twitchers a subspecies of birders?[/quote:WT?]
:puzzled: I am not sure, Liis. I think it may be English (UK) usage to say [i:WT?]twitcher [/i:WT?]to describe a birder who flocks to bird sightings along with others or simply a "serious birder." I've never hear heard that term used to describe someone in the US. I'll ask a couple of friends, a serious birder here in the US and an ex-pat (from England, now in Canada) who recently used the word in a sentence ...


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2009, 6:05 pm 
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Hello, everybody else - don't you have them in French, Spanish, German, Polish ...?
Bociany, please, you can't possibly mean that combat birders / twitchers / birdlist birders / birdchasers / birdspotters should be labelled serious birders :shock: , although they may be dead serious indeed about the chase. At peril of being blacklisted from LK translations - no :vangry:
Bong, in bongare/bongari: in this case (Nordic / Scandinavian use) it is rather likely to come from the horseracing/restaurant "bong" system: bongs were used to notch things up; possibly short for coupon, or maybe from the French bon.
Agree, unp, unlikely to have to do with bong pipes.
PS. Still love "combat birder" - conjures up any number of fascinating scenes ...


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2009, 8:58 pm 
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:peek: i have absolutely nothing clever to add to this "drop dead serious" conversation...
but i like the term " combat-birder" very much :D
thank you for lovely reading! :D

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 1:02 pm 
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As said by someone somewhere earlier, Kuremari, the things one can learn from Looduskalender are absolutely limitless ... :mrgreen:
Bongers or combat birders or ... live happily on, and have found a nice and co-operative (stays in place) Australasian pipit to notch up. Contributions to birder names are still welcome.
Meanwhile, next problem. LK front page seems to be in for a bird period. All birds seem to be described, somewhere, somehow, as - KIRJUD.
Motley, variegated, patterned, flecked, gaudy, multicoloured - OK, but not nice and easy as "kirju". They need making up one's mind about how it is "kirju".

So - please, the perfect English word for KIRJU?
As in "kirju kana" - ??? hen?
(Even Swedish has it: brokig).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 5:56 pm 
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First, what does Kirju mean - off to a dictionary.
Oh, good grief! http://enet.animato.ee/index.php?otsida ... ubmit.y=19

I looked at the pics of this bird. It is speckled, spotted, striped and smudged.
Liis, I think your choice of variegated is an all round good choice!


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 7:19 pm 
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Liis wrote:
Meanwhile, next problem. LK front page seems to be in for a bird period. All birds seem to be described, somewhere, somehow, as - KIRJUD.
Motley, variegated, patterned, flecked, gaudy, multicoloured - OK, but not nice and easy as "kirju". They need making up one's mind about how it is "kirju".

So - please, the perfect English word for KIRJU?
As in "kirju kana" - ??? hen?
(Even Swedish has it: brokig).

Liis, my Dictionary gives more - "mottled" and "diverse".

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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 8:54 pm 
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Going slightly back ... to bongari

bongari - Definition from Wiktionary, a free dictionary
Etymology - From the verb bongata (to spot) - Finnish
Noun - bongari
1. (slang) Someone who spots for hobby or pastime (birds, airplane types, beautiful chicks etc.).
2. A twitcher (birdwatcher)."
From http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bongari (first appeared in 2007)

Olga wrote about the same some time ago (viewtopic.php?p=49962#p49962)

------------------------------------------------------------
Birders use many colorful words, to quote just a few:

Tick, Megatick, Lifer, Crippler, Sibe, LBJ, Twitcher vs Dude vs Birder, Dip out on
http://homepages.tesco.net/~N.Faulkner/birding/

Chase (verb) - to go on a (usually long) trip to find a reported rarity or rarities
Dip (or dip out) - missing a rarity after having made the effort to chase it
Elitist - any experienced birder who doesn't believe what you saw
Fake - domesticated or of dubious origin, as in "those are fake ducks on the pond".
LBJ (also LBB) - any small brown, difficult to identify bird (from "little brown job")
Lister - one who obsesses about building his/her lifelist (usually used as a dismissive pejorative)
Nottabird - something that looks like a bird from a distance, but isn't on closer inspection.
Twitch (verb) - to go chasing a rarity
Twitcher - one who regularly goes chasing after rarities
Ugly Gull - any gull (independent of whether it's pretty or not) that presents an ID challenge"
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/slang.html

"I think the terms from the UK are far more colorful and interesting than any we have here in the US. - We don't twitch, tick or dip, we chase and miss. See? Not nearly as colorful!" [My impression is that 'twitcher' is used in the US and Australian sites, too]
"Dunnock actually means something (Dun, brown, + -ock, small bird, so Dunnock is the original Little Brown Bird)"
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=4694

Many alternative bird species names
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=14263

Plastic - adjective used to describe a bird that has escaped from captivity.
Blocker - a rare bird that has not occurred for many years so that long-standing twitchers have it on their lists, but younger ones are effectively "blocked" from getting it onto theirs. In Britain a classic example is MacQueen's Bustard (last record 1962).
Two-bird theory - A face-saving device. You see a bird and identify it as something rare. Someone else twitches it and re-identifies it as something very similar, but common. Rather than admit you got it wrong, you resolutely maintain you were right and that there were actually two birds present: the rare one and the common one.
Woodbird - the progenitor of Polyethylene Bird, Aluminum Can Bird, Black Garbage-bag Bird, Dead Leaf Bird, etc.
Nearly bird - one of those annoying objects, usually on telegraph poles, that resembles an owl
Camera dancer - a particularly obliging bird photographically
Wire climber or fence hopper - an Escapee
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=18646

Sorry, came to be a rather long post.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 9:08 pm 
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unp thanks for an entertaining and educational post.
I had no idea the bird-spotting language was so rich!


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: October 31st, 2009, 11:28 pm 
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Jo UK wrote:
First, what does Kirju mean - off to a dictionary.
Oh, good grief! http://enet.animato.ee/index.php?otsida ... ubmit.y=19

I looked at the pics of this bird. It is speckled, spotted, striped and smudged.
Liis, I think your choice of variegated is an all round good choice!

Variegated doesn't feel like "kirju", can't see a "kirju" bird or cow or skirt when it is variegated. A variegated rose or tulip is quite OK though, so probably a matter of getting used to it.
Mottled: OK for the duller side of kirju. A sparrow can be mottled, maybe ?

unp, thanks!
LBJ will be very useful!
The origin of bong in bongari is however still not quite clear. Not sure it is an original Finnish word (but I am perfectly happy to have Finland as inventors of bongari). Original Finnish words - like Estonian ones - don't begin with b,g,d, or only very rarely do so.
Meanwhile, today's article on LK main page is a report from the Estonian Rare Birds Commission ... No descriptions, though.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 1st, 2009, 7:48 am 
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I don't think variegated is used in terms of birds -- no idea why -- speckled seems right somehow.

My dad uses the term lbj (not Lyndon B. Johnson) sometimes and we typically refer to stick birds, although my dad likes to call some of them parallax birds. ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 1st, 2009, 9:03 am 
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Parallax :thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 1st, 2009, 9:09 am 
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Jo UK wrote:
unp thanks for an entertaining and educational post.
I had no idea the bird-spotting language was so rich!

I had no idea bird-spotting life was so variegated! :innocent:

Thanks, Alice, as said, variegated birds just don't seem right. And mottled - mottled veins & noses ...
Probably the trouble with first encounters in language - the associations stick in the brain. Like the boot that Konrad Lorenz' behavioural ducklings had imprinted as Mother Duck.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2009, 9:24 am 
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Quote:
Bong, in bongare/bongari: in this case (Nordic / Scandinavian use) it is rather likely to come from the horseracing/restaurant "bong" system: bongs were used to notch things up; possibly short for coupon, or maybe from the French bon.
Bong = "3. (restaurangspråk) lapp med matbeställning" - A waiter jotting orders down can look like a twitcher ticking off his/her list of species (if I understood the Swedish phrase right) but is it enough for the making of a word?
Bong = "1. kupong som motsvarar en viss penningsumma på pengaspel, särskilt vad gäller vadslagning på hästkapplöpning: vinstbong, bongmaskin (Etymologi - 1. Åtminstone sen 1930-talet, av franska bon "bra, god; giltig")." Seems to have a slightly different meaning. Something like a betting ticket?

Quote:
The origin of bong in bongari is however still not quite clear. Not sure it is an original Finnish word (but I am perfectly happy to have Finland as inventors of bongari). Original Finnish words - like Estonian ones - don't begin with b,g,d, or only very rarely do so.
Despite the initial "b", by far most Google "bongari" links lead to Finnish sites (including this one)

Image

Then there's a find I don't know what to make of. There exist the following toponyms:
- village Vonga and the Vonga River in Karelia (with palatalized n);
- village Vonga E of Lake Ladoga;
- village Bonga SE of Lake Onega (N of Lake Beloye).
Bonga is said to mean "a deep place in a river or lake"; "a hole with water"; "a small forest lake" in Veps or Karelian. I also read somewhere that initial "v" and "b" can alternate when influenced by neighbor languages. It's hard to see though how "a hole with water" can relate to twitching. Or can it? (Hard to say more without knowing Finnish or Estonian)


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2009, 10:38 am 
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Anything is enough to make a word from anything, these days :mrgreen: !
Agree completely that bongari for birdlister/twitcher is very much Finnish use and origin, and maybe going international.

I still put my money on the original bong as coming by way of Swedish (in turn from somewhere else). It might, but I don't much believe in it, have come to restaurant and horseracing Sweden from Finland Swedish.
Independant origin? like from banging - BONG! - to mark a new sigthing?
But then, languages are not what they seem. There are glorious examples of great minds getting into unbelievable amateur language history muddles, setting Atlantis, Paradise etc in the middle of rural Swedish nowhere, on language evidence. So some money, but not my head, on a Swedish bong. :innocent:

Sorry, admins, way off cams & animals but this is after all low-activity times for them. Will return to problems like kelp, seaweed, wrack!


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2009, 1:14 pm 
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I rather like the idea of bong -- like the ringing of a bell when a new bird is sighted (or listed).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you say - - ?
PostPosted: November 24th, 2009, 9:35 am 
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Some birds are "great" and some "greater" - as in great spotted woodpecker but greater flamingo.
Any explanation?
Numbers seem to be roughly equal (very unscientific look in Birdsearch engine).
A likewise unscientific look in the Virtuella floran turned up 2:1 for "greater" in plant names: greater dodder vs great pignut :puzzled:


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