Ospreys and Eagles in Finland ~ 2009 & 2010

[Olga]

Hi macko 50, GeorgeThank you for the information, your sincere opinion and pictures which can be found there on the link you gave. I did not know! Thank heavens there are people in more than in 50 countries who have watched the Hailuoto camera. This is not the easiest case to discuss. We have to know more how painful the knowledge ever is - to anyone - we are humans and we are able to do also wrong choices, but we have to learn of our mistakes. Now we know a bit more. I appreciate high your vigilance and alertness. I wish that all what has happened and will happen there in Hailuoto will have a positive result in the future.

[macko50]

Hi Renandeli and Everybody in this forum!

I know that you and everyboy here are staying on the right side!
But I'd like to post this pictures to Tupuna Kovanen to ask him take care of
the work of the ringers staff. I hope the same as you, that it will have a positive
result of the future.

We have more pictures about ringing in Hailuoto nest. I couldn't forget it for today,
and I can't forget it while I see the poor Koo in every day.

Ringing in Hailuoto

[Jo UK]

George, thank you so much for bringing this to everyone's attention. Many members have not known about this injured osprey (too many webcams!) so when something controversial happens, as in this case with poor Koo, then it helps so much to have the right information to base our opinions on.

As a lot of the discussion on other forums is not in English, we especially appreciate your contribution to LKF.

[lbnorthrup]

Dear Bird Lovers. Frankly, I am outraged at the way the banding of these birds was handled - this would totally not be acceptable in the US. There are careful measures taken to band chicks as they are very vulnerable and stressed from big hands and people coming at them. Bird legs are hollow and therefore very sensitive. My personal opinion is that the owner of this camera as well as the bander of the chicks is responsible for the well-being for repairing the damage done to these birds and should be made accountable for this horrible method for banding. Even if the chick's leg had been injured certainly this method for banding only exasperated the situation. This is just unbelievable. I hope Koo can somehow manage with one leg. He/she certainly is doing the best it can to gain wing strength for flight as he/she is quite vulnerable to predators.......I hope someone sends the photos and reports this process to the authorities and insists on addressing this situation.

A very fond lover of birds!

Lynn

[Olga]

http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/english/zoo ... ingers.htm


edited: I'm sorry I expressed something I regrett.

[lbnorthrup]

Renandeli and other Finnish experts and viewers: I will no longer be visiting this site as I fear my statements regarding the Hailouto site and the decisions that have been made respective of Koo and the banding may be looked upon as deflammatory. Although I am concerned and upset over the photo, it is not my place to judge the efforts that your organizations and foundations put forth in giving a view to watchers of your wildlife in your country. Thanks for sharing your comments and photobook with all of us. I have great memories of these little guys and can only hope that Koo can fledge and do what he/she is supposed to in the wild. Take care and best wishes for your continued involvement with these Osprey and other avian creatures!

Sincerely,
Lynn

[alice44]

I have to admit I know nothing about banding birds, especially Ospreys, but that does not look all that safe or gentle.

I feel very uncomfortable about doing nothing for the poor little bird but I do understand that doing any intervention is absolutely antithetical to biologists. This is a major lesson for us observers of cams to learn, BUT if our intervention causes a problem (from plastics to handling the chicks) I think we owe these beautiful creatures something.

This is a very difficult case for all of us.

[Olga]

The first flight of Koo in Hailuoto - this far I have not seen this:

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... umview=gri

d

For the moment pictures in that album are not in right order - I'll correct the order right later. The first flight happened 10:08-10:11. Koo returned on the nest in one minute (or two?). 10:15 I saw that the mother Ospray had lande on the nest with fish.

password is the same as earlier: osprey2009

[Jo UK]

So - he can fly!
Then there is hope yet. Thanks, renandeli, for watching over him/her/

[macko50]

The first flight of Koo in Hailuoto - this far I have not seen this:

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

For the moment pictures in that album are not in right order - I'll correct the order right later. The first flight happened 10:08-10:11. Koo returned on the nest in one minute (or two?). 10:15 I saw that the mother Ospray had lande on the nest with fish.

password is the same as earlier: osprey2009

This is fantastic, this power of will of Koo!!!

Renandeli,

could you help me to find a real mail address of Tupuna Kovanen

I found only this web site, but I couldn't find a real mail address to him.

http://www.saaristomeri.info/keskustelu ... on_quote=1

Thanks in advance

[Olga]

Hi, macko Georg I'll try to find it and will let you know.

I found it :

E-mail Senior Adviser: tupuna.kovanen (at) ympäristö.fi

I found it here:

Finland’s Environmental Administration personnel search

http://wwwp.ymparisto.fi/scripts/hapa/h ... xtorgid=14

[macko50]

Hi Renandeli,

thanks for the address.

I am going to write a letter to him, and ask him making steps at the
Finnish Ringing Center, changing a bit on their rough method, try to
find a gentle way, which is similar the methods the ringers using all around
the world.

[macko50]

JudyB isn't the member of this forum, but she is asked, that somebody put this new informations to here about ringing eaglets.

"I'm so happy to see the picture of Koo up in the air and to hear that he's taken a little flight. I also hope his hip is not dislocated - that would indeed make it much harder for him to find a way to adapt.

I watched some videos of eagles being released by the Wildlife Center of Virginia - some of you may have heard of them as the place where the 2008 eaglet in the Norfolk Virginia nest was taken for treatment when he developed Avian Pox. Everything I've heard about them is positive, and in their reports on "Buddy" the eaglet, I got the impression that they would do what was best for him, whether or not it was popular. I say that as background. In the video, Ed Clark of the Wildlife Center explains that it may look as if he's abusing the birds as he removes them from their transport cages and prepares them for release, but he says he's not hurting them - he's doing what's safest for the bird as well as for himself. And he says the safest way to hold an eagle is by the legs. He says:

"If I hold them by their feet upside down, that is actually the safest way to hold that bird until we get it under control because its legs are the strongest part of his body. Its legs are powerful, the bones are solid. and the leg muscles are the strongest part. That's where they generate their force. That's the tools with which they grab their fish, and do their damage and do their fighting. So that's the part of the bird I need to control the most."

I do not know if there are other experts who disagree. When I've watched eagles being banded (on cams - I've never seen any bird banded live), the bander normally grabs the feet, and holds them at all times. I don't remember seeing one held upside down. I know they sometimes put on hoods to calm the birds, and other birds seem quite calm once they're removed from the nest for testing and banding.

I agree that holding a bird with an injured leg seems very likely to increase the injury - and it seems likely that if you did not know quite how to hold them, you could hurt them. I also think the bands should not have an edge sticking out like we saw on the other Finland nest. But it is possible that at least some experts recommend holding most birds upside down to gain control and keep them from hurting the bander or themselves.

I am not a member of the Looduskalender forum so it's fine with me if anyone thinks this would be useful to add to the discussion there.

The video is by MsChris7100 who posts as Chris7 on the Maine Bald Eagle Cam forum.
The video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbuwOHZEyU
Link to Chris's post on the Maine forum - http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/viewt ... dbc#159487"

[Olga]

New pictures uploaded in a 'secret' photobucket album from yeasterday 8th August



Flying exercises, just beeing there in Hailuoto, Koo was feeded and he/she seemed satisfied..Mother Ospreay was as if protecting or defending Koo. They were together on the nest in the evening and mother was alerted looking, sitting almost on Koo and covered Koo with her tail..

1) Koo alone on the nest a sunrise 5:00 - 5:45

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

2) In the midday and afternoon, some pictures of the life of Ospreys in Hailuoto

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

3) 18:31 - 20:31 Koo was feeded carefully by mother Osprey

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

4) 20:37 - 21:14 Koo with mother Osprey who seems to behave like defending Koo with her body. Koo lying down.

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

5) Evening. At first Koo was alone, then with mother and a sibling of him/her. Asleep.

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82 ... mview=grid

[Jo UK]

What a good thing that George brought JudyB's post here.
I don't pretend to know the rights or wrongs of this instance, but it's good to get a balanced view.

I admire the members of this forum for their restraint during a time of great concern about Koo.

[macdoum]

I have just been catching up on posts here.
What a delicate situation ...
I can only say that it is painful for me to watch those photos
However will Koo be able to fish,with one leg ?
The left leg would obvisiouly be usless as its pointing BACKWARDS...?
I wish him well,with the courage of two birds, to survive in the future he will need it.
Be strong Koo..

[DB53]

[DB53]

[alice44]

Thanks renandeli & macko50 and everybody else -- it is very interesting and distressing and good to see Koo doing as well as he is doing.

[macko50]

What a good thing that George brought JudyB's post here.
I don't pretend to know the rights or wrongs of this instance, but it's good to get a balanced view.

I admire the members of this forum for their restraint during a time of great concern about Koo.

I think this discussion had some achievements, because we have learnt a lot fo new things about ringing eaglets, what we didn't know before.

Tkanks for JudyB work, and bringing a wiew about how to hold an eaglet safely. I'm only an anxious wiever, and I have never seen ringing eaglets this way.
In Estonia the ringer went to the nest and did his work. I know that this nest can't
bear the weight of a human body, and the ringer coudn't go into the nest.
In Hungary and for example in Norfolk Botanical Garden the eaglets are brought to
the ground in a bag, and they are ringed on the ground, but I have never seen it before, that the ringer are staying on a letter during ringing the eaglets.