Black Stork Webcam Discussion ~ Tiit & Tiina~ 2012

Cameras Watching over Black Storks nest
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Manu
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Re: Black Stork Webcam Discussion ~ Tiit & Tiina~ 2012

Post by Manu » August 12th, 2012, 11:16 pm

@Asteria: Thanks for you reply :wave: . I thought it was Tina, but I was not sure because it's difficult for me to see the different between the parents (I'm really an amateur :blush: ) .

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Post by Dadel » August 12th, 2012, 11:42 pm

Can somebody from Holland do the translation? :dunno:

Het nest lijkt precies met rechte stokjes te zijn afgebakend. Zou Tina dat expres zo hebben gedaan?
Ze is heel lang gisteren met het nest bezig geweest en het viel me nu op? :puzzled:

Net als de avond voor Koninginnedag op de straten :rotf:
A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.

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Post by jannie » August 13th, 2012, 11:13 am

now the season to see grew up the young storcklets is almost over, it was magnificant to see it from the begin to fly out.
Tanks that we see it from the camera , the beautiful pictures.
i hope next year the storklets come back and we can see other parents.
Everybody a good time and till 2013 here.
:wave:

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Post by asteria » August 13th, 2012, 11:29 am

No, Tommy, Lenny and Kelly are not ready to become parents yet, they are too young. But if Ms Big and Ms Little survived, they will be breeding next year. Although it doesn't mean they return to Estonia, they may stay anywhere they like: in Poland, Latvia, Belarus.

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Post by jannie » August 13th, 2012, 11:46 am

i know that maybe next year not the same storks come back here, but i hope new storks on this nest.

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Post by asteria » August 13th, 2012, 12:03 pm

jannie wrote:i know that maybe next year not the same storks come back here, but i hope new storks on this nest.
If other adult storks come here, it may be only intruders and that is not good at all. It is like somebody comes in the house you live and says:"Hey, I want to live here and you go away".

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Post by Madis » August 16th, 2012, 5:47 pm

Hello!
It has been quite a busy time... lots of patients and administrative work (working 7d per week)... yesterday finished a project grant application and if we get the funding I have some funds to buy equipment and improve the accommodation for wildlife at the clinic and also start teaching wildlife medicine to vet students. That project grant is pretty important, as it will decide if I can continue helping wildlife next year.
But back to the storklet. I guess I have some not so good news. I will not write longer as I have text and pictures on our web page http://www.metsloom.ee/en/news/patientstest and i need to go take care of the patients.
Also there is some stories about other patients, like the white-tailed eagle 12-0034

Cheers!
--
Madis Leivits, DVM
Expert-veterinary
Estonian Fund for Nature
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www.metsloom.ee
www.elfond.ee

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Post by Starling » August 16th, 2012, 6:04 pm

So sad.... again... :cry:
Thank you dr. Madis for your efforts.

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asteria
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Post by asteria » August 16th, 2012, 6:05 pm

So... no chance to survive for Lenny?

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Post by jannie » August 16th, 2012, 6:10 pm

dr Madis
What a bad marrige about the black storck.
You did what you can but for the future he cant survive and now he can live together, so sad.
Thanks for all your help so many hours i think that this decision is very difficult but for the yung storklet the only way.

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Post by Starling » August 16th, 2012, 6:13 pm

asteria wrote:So... no chance to survive for Lenny?
It sounds like that. :(

But if he is suffering now and the beak can´t be fixed, it is probably the "best" and only sensible decision.

Goodbye Lenny! :cry: We <3 you!

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Post by asteria » August 16th, 2012, 6:14 pm

Maybe he could... in the zoo? I saw black storks there and they didn't feel bad. They had an artificial nest and artificial pond and looked rather happy than miserable. Lenny has no dead disease all his trouble is that he can't eat himself! Maybe hand him to some other clinic?

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Post by NancyM » August 16th, 2012, 7:14 pm

asteria, if you read the blog on Dr Madis' website, you will see his reasoning - Lenny would need a lot of care by an individual and would not have a good quality of life in a cage.

Here is what he wrote:
http://www.metsloom.ee/en/news/patientstest

The stork has been in treatment for 6 weeks. We have had some success but also run into some unexpected problems. The good part is that the lower beak is aligned with the upper beak and is stable. My biggest worries where that the fixation would not work and the stork will have a nonfunctional scissored beak. The unexpected problem is that the lower jaw bone started to grow bit downwards so with time it developed a small gap. The importance of this problem is that the storklet has not started to eat by it self. I have been trying to get him to eat now for over a three weeks. Have done different type of tricks and used different types of food but no success. So the current result is a not functioning animal who cant be released and it needs hand feeding multiple times a day. The hand-feeding is also getting day by day more wrestling, what is stressful for the bird and I'm afraid of the injuries that he might get. As we don't have currently facility's and resources (manpower and financial) for that kind of high maintenance patient, I have run into time that I need to take a decision. Couple of years ago I saw an attempt to overwinter a black stork what ended with the birds death, so I'm aware that its not a simple task and needs some good facilities with workers and finances. As I'm working mostly alone and with limited resources and other patients, my mission is to help primary those who can be released. To keep an wild animal in captivity it needs good cause. I don't support keeping wild animals into cages for somebody's benefit, wildlife and nature has to gain a benefit that overpowers the stress caused by captivity and other potential issues for the bird.

So I will be euthanizing the storklet, but it will not be a easy task. Even doh the end result of our work is bit sad, I think we did good, as he would have died if we haven't had taken him from the nest. I feel that one of the important things is that we learned a lot. Beak fractures on young animals is not common and we don't see them often but they are totally different than adult beaks and their fractures.

I want to thank all the supporters and hope that your baby's don't need my help in future but I hope that you'll keep us supporting as we are getting more and more patients who need help! Like white tailed sea-eagle 12-0034

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Post by asteria » August 16th, 2012, 7:22 pm

Even live in a cage is better than death.

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Post by NancyM » August 16th, 2012, 7:43 pm

asteria, that might not be true - life in a cage could be very stressful for him - Dr Madis said it was getting harder and harder to feed him - so he has to either wrestle him and cause stress or the bird starves because he cannot feed himself.

I am sure that his decision was not taken easily - Dr Madis has spent weeks trying to help this bird -he must be as sad as all of us. A rehabber that I know here said that deciding to euthanize any animal is the hardest thing to do, but sometimes showing mercy to the bird is best way to help it.

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Post by asteria » August 16th, 2012, 8:20 pm

Maybe that is stupid but how I wish that the fate of such birds(to euthanize of stay them alive) could have been solved by a forum poll.

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Post by macdoum » August 16th, 2012, 8:25 pm

I understand Dr. Madis dilemma. To euthanise is an awfully difficult decesion to have to make. I have full confidence is such an experienced man. To me it would be unthinkabe to put Lenny in a cage/zoo.....who would feed him ? He seems so fractious it would be impossible without using force.
The alternative is what..he would die of hunger.
I wouldn't want that for my cat not alone for a bird who is from the wild.
Its sad news but I accept it. :cry:
Thank to Dr.Madis for all his care.
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
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Post by Starling » August 16th, 2012, 8:37 pm

asteria wrote:Maybe that is stupid but how I wish that the fate of such birds(to euthanize of stay them alive) could have been solved by a forum poll.
Dear asteria, we have never seen Lenny in real life (and I don´t believe many of us here have any medical skills to understand Lenny´s condition). We can´t make that kind of decisions. We must trust the doctor who has worked several weeks with Lenny. I´m afraid Lenny is suffering now and very unhappy. And there is no future for him with the broken beak. :( And I´m sure Dr. Madis did everything he could... I´m so sorry too...

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Post by Felis silvestris » August 16th, 2012, 8:40 pm

Asteria, and what would have happened if a forum poll says to let Lenny live? Who will be there to take care for him? If Dr. Madis did not succeed for six long weeks to get him to eat, also zoo people won't get him to eat. He has simply not learnt to eat on his own and forcing him to eat all the time is stressing him even more.
Believe me, I have this behind me, I have force fed my cat in her final illness for 4 weeks and I was at the end of my strength and was ready to make this decision. It is heartbreaking and I don't think that he will make this decision just because he is fed up feeding Lenny! We are all terribly sad and wish there would have been a better future ahead for him! Like this ... I think if you asked Lenny ...
Please try to understand reason! We all try to understand, too!
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"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



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Post by pinkish » August 16th, 2012, 9:10 pm

NancyM wrote:asteria, that might not be true - life in a cage could be very stressful for him - Dr Madis said it was getting harder and harder to feed him - so he has to either wrestle him and cause stress or the bird starves because he cannot feed himself.

I am sure that his decision was not taken easily - Dr Madis has spent weeks trying to help this bird -he must be as sad as all of us. A rehabber that I know here said that deciding to euthanize any animal is the hardest thing to do, but sometimes showing mercy to the bird is best way to help it.
your words are absolutely beautiful although sad.
the decision given was the toughest.
I understand the deep sorrow of asteria, is even mine.
...goodnight poor little thing

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