Estonian Osprey Nests Ilmar & Irma ~ DISCUSSION~ 2014

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Birdfriend
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Re: Estonian Osprey Nests Ilmar & Irma ~ DISCUSSION~ 2014

Post by Birdfriend »

Maybe, today is the day to start their migration. :unsure:
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Kukelke
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Post by Kukelke »

Birdfriend wrote:Maybe, today is the day to start their migration. :unsure:
Could be, the weather for migration will improve this afternoon and be fairly well tomorrow. But I heard at least one osprey call in the distance some 30 minutes ago.

Also worth noting is that ospreys in general tend to start their migration in the late morning, somewhere between 9:00 and 12:00, but there are quite a few exceptions on this too.

Lets see who shows up in the late afternoon, when Ilmar usually delivers some fish to the youngsters.
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Post by Birdfriend »

Thank you,Kukelke for your interesting information. Know you how old Ilmar now is?
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Post by Kukelke »

@Birdfriend,

No, I don't know Ilmar's age, but Urmas answered this last year:
Q. Do you know how old Ilmar is?
A. Don't know, probably breeding third year (in the same nest site).

viewtopic.php?p=217190#p217190
That would make Ilmar at least 7 years old (this year is likely his 4th breeding season at this nest, plus the fact that most ospreys don't start to breed before their 3rd year - more often than not they start to breed at their 4th or 5th year even). But Ilmar could be a couple of years older too, if he started to breed at 4 or 5, and/or bred in another nest before this nest.
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Post by Birdfriend »

Kukelke wrote: ... telling the world about his fish-stealing brother
:rotf: :help:
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Post by Kukelke »

Elar: Aino! You have something under your toe nails! Wait, stand still and let me remove it for you...
Image


Aino: Strange... I really thought that dad just gave me a fish. Now where did it go??
Elar: Muhahahaaa, mine, mine, all mine, this precioussssss fissshhh
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Post by Birdfriend »

People, I was born in Estland . And I like to still here ,so long I got from my Daddy fish, is that clear? http://193.40.124.24/2014-kalakotkas2-f ... -15-11.jpg
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Post by Riitta »

Thank you, Kukelke, for the funny picture story. :dunno:
It make me laugh. :mrgreen: I have read it three times!
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Post by Owlie »

In the late summer I think we agreed that Lauma&Pērkons' offspring got deliveries on perches somewhere around the nest. Am I right when I think that Aino an Elar only get deliveries on the nest? And if these feeding routines differ - why is that?
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Post by Kukelke »

Owlie wrote:In the late summer I think we agreed that Lauma&Pērkons' offspring got deliveries on perches somewhere around the nest. Am I right when I think that Aino an Elar only get deliveries on the nest? And if these feeding routines differ - why is that?
It looks indeed that Aino and Elar get all their fish on the nest.

There is much variation in feeding behaviour by parents on different nests. Some adult males deliver fish to their offspring somewhere off the nest, but this isn't a general rule, it just occurs in some osprey families. The adult females, if they help catch fish for the chicks at all, nearly always bring the fish they catch to the nest, after feeding on it themselves first.

From my observations of different nests, in cases where the male delivers fish to his offspring somewhere off the nest, it tends to be to the juvenile male chicks, while the female chicks get their fish on the nest, as always.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think it's because female juveniles can become pretty territorial in the period between fledging and migrating. That is, they tend to chase off their male siblings (who are smaller after all), or deny their male siblings fish, steal fish from their male siblings or even straight out deny their brothers to land on the nest.
We've seen how Snips, the oldest of the Latvian ospreys and male, had to wait till both his younger sisters had eaten before he was allowed to eat, if there was something left for him, that is. And even then his fish could be taken away again by the other sister.
At the Dyfi nest, female osplet Deri chased off her older brother more than once. To start with only when fish was delivered (she still tolerated him on the nest when no fish was involved), but in the end she even denied Gwynant to land on the nest. The nest was hers and Gwynant had to sit next to Monty on the perch.

Back to Ilmar & Irma's nest:
We have two male chicks without much real agression between them, and both tolerate each other on the nest. None of the osplets has a physical advantage over the other. Elar has a habit to steal fish from Aino every now and then, but it never gets nasty and there's no real fighting or pecking between the siblings. Elar is slightly more dominating than Aino, and therefore Elar doesn't care much if Aino is on the nest when Elar eats his fish. On the other hand, Aino almost always leaves the nest when he has a fish and Elar is near or on the nest. Aino has learned that staying with fish on the nest triggers Elar's thief'ish behaviour, so he leaves. But when Elar is full, he is quite easy going and doesn't mind if Aino gets a fish.
Long story short: there's no need for Ilmar to bring fish to a disadvanted osplet on a perch somewhere off the nest.
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Post by Bea »

Owlie wrote:....Am I right when I think that Aino an Elar only get deliveries on the nest? ...
Kukelke´s arguments sound all very reasonable, but I think nobody can say whether they get their fish only on the nest, as we can observe only this small section in camera view of their life, and know nothing definite what de facto happens outside of this view.
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Post by Birdfriend »

Kukelke, a good information again from you. Thank you!
I am happy, that I can see all the feeds on the nest. :D
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Post by Kukelke »

Bea wrote:Kukelke´s arguments sound all very reasonable, but I think nobody can say whether they get their fish only on the nest, as we can observe only this small section in camera view of their life, and know nothing definite what de facto happens outside of this view.
We can never be 100% sure of course when we don't have multiple cams around to show everything.

However, the relative big size of the fish delivered on the nest by Ilmar lately, makes it highly likely that no fish is delivered off-nest. After all, there's only so much an osprey can eat, even an ever hungry youngster.
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Post by Bea »

Kukelke wrote:We can never be 100% sure of course when we don't have multiple cams around to show everything. ...
That´s the reason why nobody can say "only" ...

This is one of my dreams for the future .... one cam on the nest, second one viewing the immediate area/airspace around the nest and a third one showing their preferred fishing grounds ..... *sigh*
:mrgreen:

But I fear it will stay a dream :wink:

Fishes in the ponds also grow nicely, as we can see at the deliveries - fish is much bigger now than in the beginning of the season, at least those, who Ilmar catches out of the commercial ponds.
It also depends, in which size the owner of the commercial ponds has put in young fish. Setting in smaller sized young fishes is cheaper, but causes more costs for food, to feed them to a nice and profitable size.

There were bigger fishes in the beginning of the season, too - but several species let me suppose that they were most likely out of natural rivers and ponds.

A certain percentage of delivered fish might have got lost, too - when osprets took them away, to eat them on another place (tree? other close empty nest?).
As we could observe, sometimes approaching and landing on the nest is still not so easy, though they are quite good flyers now. With wet feathers (rainy weather) and a fish in talons it is probably not so easy to land on a branch.


Edit:
And I don´t want to exclude, that brotherly fish theft happens outside of our view, too! :mrgreen:
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Post by Owlie »

So both chicks have been seen on the nest this morning but not later - whether they got fed on tree branches or one of them has already migrated? One of them called from the cam stand just a moment ago ... It turned out to be Elar who also received a fish from Ilmar.
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Post by Kukelke »

Owlie wrote:So both chicks have been seen on the nest this morning but not later - whether they got fed on tree branches or one of them has already migrated? One of them called from the cam stand just a moment ago ...
That was Elar calling.

Maybe Aino started his migration today. After all he's 95 days old, so about time to leave, and migration conditions are rather good today. We'll know more later today, and can be pretty sure if Aino doesn't show up tomorrow morning.
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Post by Owlie »

Good luck to the migration, Aino!
:thumbs:
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Post by aita »

15:00:15 camera time
:nod: two
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Post by Owlie »

aita wrote:15:00:15 camera time
:nod: two ...
Could have been Ilmar and Elar ...?

The fish Ilmar delivered 15:18 was apparently without head. So Elar could have followed Ilmar with the newly caught fish and Ilmar took it to the dead tree first, in order to eat the head before delivery on the nest to Elar.

- Who knows, maybe Elar was following Ilmar during all the fishing process and was learning how the fish is caught ...?
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Post by Birdfriend »

Kukelke wrote:

Has Aino started the greatest journey of his life? I have a feeling that he did.
I think this also. Ilmar talks with Elar. I think the fish was for Aino, Ilmar was long on the nest. I wish a good migration Aino and I hope, that he has a good life. :wave:

Time,to say good bye. :cry:
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