Estonian Osprey Nest (Irma & Ivo) 2018

[mogga]

°°°

The ring is overlapping and the plastic is flexible to a certain degree.
So the ring can be stretched. Ülo performs this with a gripper, the force he needs doesn't seem to be excessive.

For me it stays cryptically how the ring could come to this position where it's now.

[asteria]

Black stork Padis in 2008 managed to lose his plastic ring but it is not known how it happened

[Rita]

I can imagine that the ring got attached to something, Jaak pulled his foot away, widened the ring and it slipped lower and closed with the innate tension of the ring. I pray that Jaak manages to get rid of it.

Have the eagle people given an opinion?

[Hellem]

19:49 Heli landed, did some nestwork and jumped to the cam stand at 19:42

[Deli]

Maybe the ring get lost when Jaak tries to fish his food himself. The water cools and detumescences the leg. Furthermore the water has a strong pulling effect and so it's possible the ring slips off.

Let's trust in his luck!

[Rita]

Maybe the ring get lost when Jaak tries to fish his food himself. The water cools and detumescences the leg. Furthermore the water has a strong pulling effect and so it's possible the ring slips off.

Deli: For the ring to be displaced like that it needs quite some impact. Or do you really think that cold water shrinks the leg diameter by a third??? If it is like you say why has it not slipped off his toes then? And all ospreys would have lost their rings by now if it was that easy.

Look at the ringing video and you will notice that this ring has quite some tension. You need a wee bit more than water to get it off. You need pliers. Hopefully Jaak can use his beak to help him come free. He would need the help of corvids.

And his leg was not swollen since he got the ring on (cf. your word 'detumescence') and it was not afterwards - why should it?

[Jenny]

Oh! No! I don't migrate....I'm yours. I'm very worried about Jaak....

Thank you all for the reports, updates! I am very concerned about the future of Jaak. I hope that the ring will break before Jaak will begin the migration process. Although there is a risk that the ring is deformed and aggravate the situation.

Hi Sunshine, the first thing for me in the morning is, looking for our Ospreys. Since all of you make so nice comments, I don't want to print the same feelings I have for them, too. It's hard for me that the time is near when our loved ones, Jaak, Heli and Kaja, take off to unknown places and like every year I hope no one will be harmed.

[Kawajet]

I also do not think the ring loosens so easily, it widened somehow, slipped and now it's back with a pressure

[Birdfriend]

I can imagine that the ring got attached to something, Jaak pulled his foot away, widened the ring and it slipped lower and closed with the innate tension of the ring. I pray that Jaak manages to get rid of it.

Have the eagle people given an opinion?

That's what Urmas wrote: https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... start=4200

[balistar]

.......
ED: Unfortunately I don't remember the exact day of this week and time and who this ospret was but nevertheless I write this. Irma or Ivo brought a very branchy "half tree" on the nest. I saw an ospret had got entangled by it and whenever it hopped, the tree hopped with it. So the ospret wanted to release itself and pulled hard to get free. Maybe it was when a twig got under the ring and pulled it down. Just a thought I wanted to share. Sorry for not fixing the time as I never thought it might have been of importance.

Good evening everybody here,

I am a "silent reader" and follow this thread with great pleasure, but don't post anything.
In this sad situation with Jaak's trapped toes now I must ask, if the above post from Summi was not read or noticed ??

It seems to me a comprehensible explanation for the emergence of this dilemma.
Would it be possible to create a retrospective video here as well or to find this situation in the archive at all ? Sure, it will not solve the problem, but it could provide insight for the experts who put the rings on or decide which rings to use.


Then I would like to thank everyone here for their posts, pictures, reports and comments.
You all do and did a great job here during the last months

And now I keep my fingers crossed and pray for Jaak, that he can free by a lucky coincidence his toes of this ring

[Urmas]

There were some suggestions to trap Jaak. I have to say that almost every trapping technique involves certain risks. We decided for Osprey to be safest trapping with raptor mist net using some lure they would like to attack near the nest. But that works nearly only with adults with chicks, sometimes also at feeding sites. Juveniles will not attack their enemies, also adults with fledged juveniles try to get further of enemy, not to risk with attacking.
Using of snares on nest contains risks of injury, as well as most probably will be caught some other member of Osprey family we watch.
Therefore we rather observe the situation and try to make own corrections for the future ringing events. Therefore it is very much valuable to see, what in realty happens in such cases. If we interrupt, there will be not information about real life of Ospreys (in most cases we do not know, what happens in nests). Yes, it is difficult to watch, if there is wish to act for that particular individual well-being and welfare.
Think it is difficult to move ring with beak, because there is no base to fix the beak on ring and pull it with enough power. That power should be stronger as of claws locking it.

[Bea]

Good evening everybody here,

I am a "silent reader" and follow this thread with great pleasure, but don't post anything.
In this sad situation with Jaak's trapped toes now I must ask, if the above post from Summi was not read or noticed ??

It seems to me a comprehensible explanation for the emergence of this dilemma.
Would it be possible to create a retrospective video here as well or to find this situation in the archive at all ? Sure, it will not solve the problem, but it could provide insight for the experts who put the rings on or decide which rings to use.


Then I would like to thank everyone here for their posts, pictures, reports and comments.
You all do and did a great job here during the last months

And now I keep my fingers crossed and pray for Jaak, that he can free by a lucky coincidence his toes of this ring

Good evening balistar,

yes, Summi´s post was read, but downloading several 6-hour-video-patches with a size of about 5 Gigabite or more from the archives takes time. And when it is finally downloaded, video material has to be sighted and video clips have to be cut, edited/transformed and uploaded to youtube.
I am no retired person, have a job and a family and this daily life takes its´time.

So that´s the reason why not everything can happen "pronto-pronto". But I am working on it to find out what else we can get from this special day Jaaks´ ring slipped down.

Not meant offending or bad, just as an explanation.

Thank you for another pair of crossed fingers for Jaak

[Kawajet]

There were some suggestions to trap Jaak. I have to say that almost every trapping technique involves certain risks. We decided for Osprey to be safest trapping with raptor mist net using some lure they would like to attack near the nest. But that works nearly only with adults with chicks, sometimes also at feeding sites. Juveniles will not attack their enemies, also adults with fledged juveniles try to get further of enemy, not to risk with attacking.
Using of snares on nest contains risks of injury, as well as most probably will be caught some other member of Osprey family we watch.
Therefore we rather observe the situation and try to make own corrections for the future ringing events. Therefore it is very much valuable to see, what in realty happens in such cases. If we interrupt, there will be not information about real life of Ospreys (in most cases we do not know, what happens in nests). Yes, it is difficult to watch, if there is wish to act for that particular individual well-being and welfare.
Think it is difficult to move ring with beak, because there is no base to fix the beak on ring and pull it with enough power. That power should be stronger as of claws locking it.

Thank you Urmas, you have explained this clearly and informatively, and you can also gain knowledge from it.

[Kawajet]

Good evening balistar,

yes, Summi´s post was read, but downloading several 6-hour-video-patches with a size of about 5 Gigabite or more from the archives takes time. And when it is finally downloaded, video material has to be sighted and video clips have to be cut, edited/transformed and uploaded to youtube.
I am no retired person, have a job and a family and this daily life takes its´time.

So that´s the reason why not everything can happen "pronto-pronto". But I am working on it to find out what else we can get from this special day Jaaks´ ring slipped down.

Not meant offending or bad, just as an explanation.

Thank you for another pair of crossed fingers for Jaak

Fully understandable,
I think so too

[balistar]

Good evening balistar,

yes, Summi´s post was read, but downloading several 6-hour-video-patches with a size of about 5 Gigabite or more from the archives takes time. And when it is finally downloaded, video material has to be sighted and video clips have to be cut, edited/transformed and uploaded to youtube.
I am no retired person, have a job and a family and this daily life takes its´time.

So that´s the reason why not everything can happen "pronto-pronto". But I am working on it to find out what else we can get from this special day Jaaks´ ring slipped down.

Not meant offending or bad, just as an explanation.

Thank you for another pair of crossed fingers for Jaak

Thank you very much, Bea,

my question should not be perceived as a reprimand or as an impatient urge. I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

I just asked the question because I could not read anywhere that someone is taking care of it and is able to search the archives for this event. It is very clear to me that this takes a lot of effort and time. My greatest respect and thanks go to you doing this alongside your job and family. And I am waiting patiently.

It just seemed to me very important (and i thank Summi for remembering and mentioning) in terms of whether in the future other rings will be decided, if it should turn out that a complicated branch could have caused this dilemma.
Although not to compare, but I think there, for example, on self-releasing collars in cats when they are stuck with them, so as not to strangle.

Even Urmas thinks about it, if I understand him correctly:

.....
Therefore we rather observe the situation and try to make own corrections for the future ringing events.
.....

Now I thank you in advance, Bea, and hope, that your arduous search and download from the archives brings the desired result, the hint, how the ring of Jaak could have slipped down. If it was not that "half tree"-branch, we will never know, when it happened somewhere out of our view.

Anyway i keep on crossing my fingers (and my toes) for Jaak.

[Chimega]

Thank you so much, Urmas, for looking into the situation and thank you, Bea, for trying to piece this situation together to find the reason. I think all that can be done is to hope and pray the ring comes off of it's own accord as I feel this young osprey's fishing attempts will be greatly hampered if his toes are covered with the ring and he can't use them to secure a fish.

[Rita]

Thank you, birdfriend, for the link.

[Summi]

Bea, please do not waste your time trying to find what I explained in my post. I hesitated long to write about it or not, since I don't remember exactly who it was but it would still explain how it might have happened. Anyway if the video were made, it would not solve the situation with Jaak's ring. Thank you very much for your work as moderator.

[mogga]

Good morning!

21.08.

5:38 Heli on the nest, 5:40 flew off to the dead tree
5:44 Jaak on the nest, ring still there, 5:45 he leaves, 5:46 back
5:47 Heli comes to the nest, too
5:58 Heli leaves to the cam stand (Jaak is on the dead tree since a while)
6:27 Jaak on the nest again, 6:30 flew off

[Galina]

Thank you Urmas and Team for sharing your thoughts with us.

When I saw Jaak yesterday, I had the impression, that he quite got used to it, I think he will learn to cope with it, if it doesn't fall off soon. So I am not that worried. But yes, I hope it will go the easiest way for him and that it will be gone soon.

09:44 someone's on the dead tree.