Black Stork Tracks

[Anne7]

Hello everyone.

It's my turn to have a question.
I have been thinking a lot about Uno, Tali and Usin (and all other storklets). I really hope they were strong, clever and lucky enough to reach a good wintering area in Africa.

I was wondering, if young storks arrive in Africa for the first time, what happens next? How long do they stay there?
Some say they stay there till they are adult, and then return to the area where they were born. (3th year?)
But others say that those youngsters already migrate northward the next spring. But not (necessarily) all the way to their country. So they could spend the summer for example in Israel, or in Turkey.

Is there someone who has good information about this?

[Solo]

... I was wondering, if young storks arrive in Africa for the first time, what happens next? ... Some say they stay there till they are adult, and then return to the area where they were born. (3th year?) But others say that those youngsters already migrate northward the next spring. But not (necessarily) all the way to their country. ...

Anne7, my infos - both is true. You can follow up the black storks tracks also in this topic - goris infos (site: goris.lv) or movebank.org. But only 1 from 4 survive. ... (e.g. - german: https://blackstorknotes.blogspot.sk/201 ... ngter.html )

goris (click) - only first summer (migration path after 15. V.)

[Anne7]

Thank you so much, Solo!
Also for the pictures and link. I will read it!
Very kind of you.
Kate did a long flight over the Black Sea, when flying back to Turkey!

Yes, I know, Solo, the survival rates aren't very good.

[Solo]

... Kate did a long flight over the Black Sea, when flying back to Turkey!..

problem with GSM data - latest and first new localisation (not actual route)
over sea flew Feja http://www.goris.lv/en/feja-made-it/ , http://www.goris.lv/en/how-to-cross-mediterranean/ (she also died http://www.goris.lv/kas-sakas-labi-tas-beidzas-slikti/ )

[Anne7]

Ok! On the map, it looks as if she had been flying that huge distance over the water...
Thanks for all the info, Solo!

Solo, I'm so sorry to hear so many storks you followed perished...

[Solo]

... Solo, I'm so sorry to hear so many storks you followed perished...

very much (also WS I followed) ... That's the reason, why I don’t want a telemetric device for "our" storklets - that we're observing on the nest, and they're very, very close to our hearth

EDIT: with another bird is this not so hard when they pass away, and ornithologist learn much important from all data

[Solo]

FB Melnais stārķis. Dzīvības lidojums ("goris" storks - storks from Latvia)
much infos about project: https://www.facebook.com/DzivibasLidoju ... 2170450018

[Anne7]

FB Melnais stārķis. Dzīvības lidojums ("goris" storks - storks from Latvia)
much infos about project: https://www.facebook.com/DzivibasLidoju ... 2170450018

Yes, this is sad information, Solo.

Edit: But, in my opinion, it proves that transmitters are very useful and necessary.
If they know nothing, there is nothing ornithologists can undertake to improve the situation.
Closing our eyes and hoping for the best is not helping our birds!
I'm not talking about the individual birds who carry a transmitter.
They provide the necessary information. They show what and where the dangers are.
I'm talking about the survival of the black stork species.

Thanks a lot. Till later.

[Dagmar]

Solo, thank you for all your informationes.
I'm almost of your opinion. I would like to donate for a transpondor, but then I think if something happens to the storklet, we have immediate assurance and hope dies with it.
In many cases then also the thought of the storklet.

I am still very sad when I think of Ravio.
On the other hand, he probably would never have been found without a telemetry device.

I can not decide. There is so much for and against.

[Jo UK]

Dagmar, thank you for your thoughtful post. I don't know how to help you decide if you are in favour of transmitters for birds, or not.
Can you list the reasons For and Against that are important to you? Maybe just doing that exercise will help to clarify your thoughts.

I can only give my opinion about this subject. I am in favour of any - harmless - means which will give black storks a more assured future. For instance, if it can be shown, with enough solid and widespread factual evidence that putting power cables above ground is killing how many hundreds of birds each year, then the power companies may eventually agree to put their cables underground. Some countries are already doing that, but not enough.
That is only one example of how the knowledge gained from transmitter data can help our black storks in the future.

It is the future of black storks that must concern us.

[Liz01]

Dagmar, I watched Zile and Ozol's nest in 2015. Day after day, many hours a day. Ziluka and Ziluks were "my" babies. Ziluka got a transmitter. In the same year we lost her. The same in 2016.. Raivis and Rasa-Raitis.. we have lost Rasa Raitis. Raivis did not get a transmitter. I was allowed to choose a name for a Storklet. I'm can still hope, that he is alive. (It was "my" Storklet)

I was very, very sad about it. I cried! also at Raivo.
These are human feelings, that do not help the birds.
What really helps is what Urmas, Maris (Latvian Ornithologist) and Carsten Rohde do. Ringing and Transmitter. Without transmitter data we know nothing. We only see what happens at the nest.
I think like Jo!

We can not help if we do not know where they are and why accidents happen.
Urmas knows the area where Karl goes hunting ... thanks to the transmitter. Every year they clean up the area so that Karl can find enough food.

That's my opinion on the subject.

[Solo]

December 5th
Good morning!

birdmap KARL and EEDI

EEDI -new Data
Distance: 7867km, Last data: 04.12.2017, plus 83km (02.12.2017 - 7784km)

Eedi flew to south - Alfaraah area


itinerary (position 1,2, 3 4, and 5) - click

[Solo]

first stream area


second stream - Valley Dam Bdoh

[Solo]

muche photos https://goo.gl/zCisTc


https://goo.gl/maps/7jAVzfG2XR22


https://goo.gl/maps/tLDd1ygfQqq

[Rita]

Liz & Jo: Very well said.

Solo: Thank you for the link to the pictures. Much appreciated.

Is there an estimate how many BS are wintering in that valley dam area? I guess no ornithologist has yet been at the site.

[Dagmar]

Thanks Jo and Liz!
You are right about the future of BS.
I think a lot. I am very sensitive and sometimes I still cry to Ravio. I am also very worried about Avio and Mare. It's a heavy burden for me.
,
I do not observe any other birds on their journey. That's why I do not know about them and I do not care.
I'm only observing the Black Storks.

Yes, Liz, my worries do not help the storks.
I know your feelings. I have the same with my Barn Owls.
Many thanks.

[asteria]

Transmitters help people to learn migration ways. For birds they are not useful and maybe even harmful, because to fly with them is harder.

It is not known if something happened with Ziluka or with her transmitter, because AFAIK nobody checked it yet there are a so many cases when the birds are OK and the transmitters are broken.

On the other hand - the stork without transmitter, Tommy, survived, grew up and was seen in Estonia.

[Liz01]

Raivo lived since 2008 with the transmitter. He had no problems .. he had problems with a high voltage mast.

EDIT: Asteria
I do not think that almost all young storks with transmitter disappear, because the transmitter does not work, or is lost.
The probability is very low!

[Liz01]

I have to read it once again.. I think it is Mare I hope, that I'm wrong


https://www.facebook.com/DzivibasLidoju ... ed_comment

Maris writes that many storklets die in areas where there is no GSM coverage.. amog others- Upene=Ziluka!
It is written about the different causes of death. Many die on their way to Africa.

I think the dead Storklet isn't Mare!
I will translate later. Now I have no time .. I need lunch

[Solo]

Maris writes ... I will translate later. Now I have no time .. I need lunch

Liz viewtopic.php?p=556810#p556810

GT like not Lavian, but i understand, after translating to 4 language (Mare is still alive, probably, wrote M.S.)