Following Karls' Families

[chrisitz]

hi dear all!
I will believe on kuhankeittäjä's theorie that there is still a chance, that Paike is alive!
Thank you all for your work! A daily report by tracker map is in my opinion not necessary. You have enough work!

[Treia]

Good morning all!

Anne7, Jo UK, and Urmas,
thanks for this great TrackerMap !!!

Michi has expressed her wish for the matter so well that I'm quite agree with her.
But this question: Would you like to help by stating which map you would like to see: bird, date, time span
(on a daily or regular basis)? What is meant by the question? How do these bird- date- and time- maps differ?

And many many thanks to Oriole !!!

[raija]

09.Nov.
Good morning to all


Question about Tracker Map;
I'm completely Michi's opinion.

Jo and Anne .... thanks for your effort .... great

So do I.

[Jo UK]

Good morning.

Michi, thank you for your opinion, which is exactly the same as mine!
I have thought that there is little benefit in seeing a bird staying in the same place for days or weeks at a time.
So now Anne and I know exactly what you want, and you know that you can say something like
"A tracker map of bird X at time Y would be interesting." Thank you

[Anne7]

Hello, everyone!

Michi, Sova, chrisitz, Treia, raija and Jo, many thanks for telling your opinions about the tracker maps!
I completely agree with your vision.


As most people do not read backwards , and I made quite some changes in the post (and in the map), I removed it from the previous page and put it here.

... It could be like compass azimuth (course) with value of 0-360 degrees. As much as I know it is calculated for every moment if location is calculated. Direction or course doesn't care about heading of the bird, it can even fly tail in front and belly up, but course (direction) is still only one. So if the bird is soaring, the direction is like a tangent to the cycle (if it is correct in English?). Last location of Päike has direction of 316 degrees, what means roughly NE. But I'm almost sure he was soaring that time...

Many thanks for the very useful information, Urmas.

... Edit: Meanwhile Urmas has answered. Direction means GPS direction of movement (direction of velocity vector) during coordinate determination by satellites; a tangent of the true flight path at given coordinates. Last known direction was towards the middle finger of mainland. ...

Hi, kuhankeittäjä
I made an attempt to convert Païke's last known flight data (the 7 last location points and the 7 last direction indications, in degrees) into an image.
Knowing the different flight directions is of course very helpful to reconstruct the route.
This map should approach it quite well.
The trajectory does not resemble a determined attempt to cross the sea.
At point 7, it looks as if Päike wanted to return to one of the islands.
Unfortunately, there is no single indication of Päike's route after point 7.

I wish I could believe that she has been staying somewhere on the island of Sapientza (for example) for already a month, outside of GSM coverage. (Small parts of that island do not have GSM coverage.) From what we saw in Kosava, Belarus, we know that Päike only travels very short distances when she has found a good feeding place. But an entire month without being "detected" is extremely long, isn't it?
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 79#p614579

]

The degrees on a compass:



Here is the TRACKER MAP of Päike's 7 last known positions on 07.10.2018:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P9Aps ... sp=sharing

Edit: And here is a repeat of the weather report of 07.10.2018
PÄIKE
Last data: 07.10.2018
Distance: 3257 km (+ 98 km)
At 11:00
Temp: 22°; over sea: 22°
Precipitation: 0 mm
Humidity: 80% ; over sea: 80%
Wind 10 m - SW (08 km/h); over sea: E (05 km/h)
Wind 100 m - SW (07 km/h); over sea: E (07 km/h)
Wind 250 m - SW (07 km/h); over sea: E (07 km/h)
Wind 500 m - variable directions (07 km/h); over sea: variable directions (02/03 km/h)
AT 15:00
Wind 10 m over sea: W (12-15 km/h)
Wind 100 m over sea: SW (09 km/h)
Wind 250 m over sea: SW (10 km/h)
Wind 500 m over sea: W (04 km/h)
For a more global view on the wind directions between the Peloponnese and Libya on 07.10, see Sova's weather maps here:
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 82#p617682

At 14:00 (and at point 7), the wind direction was not really favourable (headwind) to cross the Mediterranian.

[Jo UK]

Very well done, Anne. You have put a lot of work into that map.

[sova]

Dear Anne ... as Jo said, you have invested a lot of effort in this map. Thank you so much.
Now that we have seen direction as Päike has flown (if I understand correctly), the last 1/2 hour is like a mad flight (panic?).
I hope she has reached coast but the point 7 does not suit me.

Thank you again.

[Solo]

Dear all worried about Päike - about the last know fly path, fly direction, etc.

by Urmas » November 8th, 2018 "But I'm almost sure he was soaring that time... " (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... ke#p621506)
by Urmas » October 15th "Päike was hovering over the sea that time, trying to find thermics probably to hold height easily." (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 01#p618601)
by Urmas » October 10th "Last location shows normal flight over the Mediterranean sea, about 8km south of Schiza island. But that is not straightway flight southward, but more like hesitating go or not to go... Since that no GSM coverage in proposed time of transmission (after every six hours)."

you saw that super video? (only 2min and 13sec)
Flapping behaviour of thermalling storks https://youtu.be/v-kmRVTpsMk
GPS data visualization of 27 storks thermalling elegantly in a thermal upwind. The flight path of each bird is color-coded based on its overall flapping activity from blue (low) to red (high).
(Copyright: Renaud Bastien and Mate Nagy, Max Planck Institute for Ornithology, Radolfzell, Germany)

Pls. remember:
- we hadn't more data
- nobody reported about Päike (Birding report) and nobody let him/Urmas know if saw Päike or found Päike's body or transmitter, ring
- we know only the last data: 07.10.2018 and the last localisation (above sea, but not far from coast)
- if is Päike still alive or perished will be probably question without answer (by Urmas » October 10th "Think we need to be ready for losses in brood, unfortunately. But who knows truth about Päike?")

[Anne7]

Very well done, Anne. You have put a lot of work into that map.

Thank you, Jo.
Making this map was a little tribute to our Päike, I guess.
I miss her and do not want to forget her so quickly.

Dear all worried about Päike - about the last know fly path, fly direction, etc.
...

Thanks, Solo
Yes, I have seen that interesting video(-animation).

Dear Anne ... as Jo said, you have invested a lot of effort in this map. Thank you so much.
Now that we have seen direction as Päike has flown (if I understand correctly), the last 1/2 hour is like a mad flight (panic?).
I hope she has reached coast but the point 7 does not suit me.

Hello, Sova. Thank you.
Panic? I don't know, Sova, but the same idea came to my mind...
I do not want to spread fear, but I also find this route rather strange. Could it be that Päike has been chased by a large bird of prey?
I have no idea how long such a pursuit can last. And I also do not know what their flight pattern looks like when they are being chased.
And whether or not there are large birds of prey that could hunt BS, in the Peloponnese?

Presumably, there is someone who can inform us about this.

[sova]

Anne, when I read Solo's Post, looking for a thermals. All right ... that would also explain that she first NE and then SW flies. But those are last two points .... we do not know any more. Bird of prey .... I personally do not believe.
I've always wondered if this is just Päik's flight or was the entire group involved.

[Solo]

.. Could it be that Päike has been chased by a large bird of prey? ... And I also do not know what their flight pattern looks like when they are being chased. ...

e.g. Golden Eagle attacks Black Stork (nothing bad) https://youtu.be/OwqCEv8eTqQ

[sova]

Question;
Would the golden eagle also hunt over the sea?... I do not know

[Anne7]

e.g. Golden Eagle attacks Black Stork (nothing bad) https://youtu.be/OwqCEv8eTqQ

Thank heavens, the black stork escaped!
A golden eagle must also eat, of course.

Anne, when I read Solo's Post, looking for a thermals. All right ... that would also explain that she first NE and then SW flies. But those are last two points .... we do not know any more. Bird of prey .... I personally do not believe.
I've always wondered if this is just Päik's flight or was the entire group involved.

The flights above the islands can certainly be explained by the search for thermals.

Question;
Would the golden eagle also hunt over the sea?... I do not know

I don't know either, Sova.

A long time ago, I saw a documentary about migrating birds (western route). Somewhere in the mountains (in the Pyrenees? in Spain?), raptors were waiting for their annual arrival. They also captured storks... Unfortunately, I don't remember the details, and I can't find it back. Maybe someone else has seen this documentary, too?

[raija]

I'm wondering ...
1. if a predator attacked Päike near Greece where is the Ornitrack? I do not think Päike with tracker is dropped to sea by predator. And the tracker is water proof.
2. if Päike flew back to continent the tracker would have sent data because of good GSM coverage.
3. if Päike started to fly across the Mediterranean sea and got tired during the trip. We probably would not hear anything about Päike anymore.
4. If Päike succeeded in crossing the Mediterranean and would have been somewhere in Libyan desert no more data transmission could succeeded.
5. if Ornitrack is broken

[Made]

Anne7, nice map! I take two indicators from it

I tried to look on speed and altitude (and vice versa) of seven Päike`s points and now I don`t understand:
1) is there some correspondence with lifting up in thermals?
2) is the last point in trend line, or is it out of normal behaviour?
Most probably there is not enough data to answer decently

[Hellem]

New update

9.11

Karula - 4827 km (+16 km), the same area in Israel, sent data from his/her overnight place near HaGoshrim

Maru - 6953 km (+7 km), the same area in Egypt near Kom Umbu

[Anne7]

Hello, raija!
Thank you.
I think that what you wrote could be a good "summary".

Anne7, nice map! I take two indicators from it
I tried to look on speed and altitude (and vice versa) of seven Päike`s points and now I don`t understand:
1) is there some correspondence with lifting up in thermals?
2) is the last point in trend line, or is it out of normal behaviour?
Most probably there is not enough data to answer decently

Made, thank you very much!

First of all, let me tell you that I'm not an expert, Made.

On the mainland, Päike starts at a very good height and speed (thermals). (point 1)
She quickly loses altitude and speed above the water. (point 3)
Afterwards, she gets again more altitude above the different islands (thermals). (between 3 and 4, and immediately after point 6)
Speed and altitude are (on average) in a descending line while flying above the water.
I am afraid I can not say whether point 7 is still within a normal range.
I can only suggest that a speed of 18 km/h is probably (far too) slow to cross the Mediterranean (ca 400 km) in a reasonable period of time. (point 7)

We also have to take into account that the altitude data are not very accurate. The speed data are reliable.

[Made]

First of all, let me tell you that I'm not an expert, Made.

Okay, but our conversations can go to the experts
Thanks!

[Anne7]

New update
9.11
Karula - 4827 km (+16 km), the same area in Israel, sent data from his/her overnight place near HaGoshrim
Maru - 6953 km (+7 km), the same area in Egypt near Kom Umbu

Thank you, Hellem!

KARULA
Last data: 09.11.2018
Distance: 4827 km (+ 16 km in 1 day), same area (near HaGoshrim, Israel)

Karula had already gone to sleep when his transmitter sent these data.


MARU
Last data: 09.11.2018
Distance: 6953 km (+ 7 km in 1 day), same area (near Kom Umbu, Egypt)

Maru is still looking for food in the same fields.

[Solo]

KARULA

previous data
Last data: 08. 11., Distance: 4811km (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 90#p621490)

new data
Last data: 09.11.2018, Distance: 4827 km (+ 16km), still in the area



second visit the ponds near Dan