Following Karls' Families
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 24099
- Joined: June 28th, 2012, 4:33 pm
- Location: Tallinn
Re: Following Karl's Family
A bit statistics
During 2013-2017 28 Latvian young storks got transmitters, only Mare (started to her first migration 17.08.2016) is still alive
12 BS died in Europe during their 1st-2nd month of migration
3 BS died in Turkey and 1 in Israel on their 3rd-4th month of migration
8 BS died in Africa (5 during their 3rd-5th month of migration, 2 on their 7th month of migration and 1 (Raitis) lived for 11 months after his migration began)
2 BS (Aivo and Sarma) died in Europe on their first spring migration in the age about 1 year
1 BS (Kate) died in Saudi Arabia being more than 2 years old
The BS Feja was the only one who flew over the Mediterranean Sea
https://www.movebank.org/panel_embedded_movebank_webapp
- Liz01
- Registered user
- Posts: 72352
- Joined: January 21st, 2014, 2:06 pm
- Location: Germany
Hellem, thank you for remember at the statistics. I have it in my mind. That's why I do not try to pretend that everything is fine with Päike. It would be a nice surprise if she/he still lives. But the route he / she chose was the worst.
Solo, please let me live! Most likely, whatever happened, it happened outside the GSM coverage. Rather, it happened at a time when it was not sent. Every 6 hours or so is sent?
faith and hope is also not very scientific
- Anne7
- Registered user
- Posts: 10511
- Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
- Location: Belgium
This is what Urmas wrote about our Päike, already on the 10th of October.
Did the transmitter fall off? Also very unlikely. The straps are very solid, and very carefully adjusted and fixed to fit the bird.
Did Päike manage to reach Africa? The shortest possible distance was 450 km. Päike flew, at that moment 18 km/h. At that speed, it would have taken her at least 25 hours of wing flapping to reach Africa, probably more. She took off at 13:45 (local time). So that means that she would at the earliest reach Libya at 14:45 on the next day! (And that she would have to fly all night long in the dark.) I am very sorry to say this, but I really doubt that our little Päike was able to do this. It has been too far, too long, too difficult, in my opinion.
But Urmas added: "Who knows the truth about Päike?" or as Liz said: "Sometimes miracles happen." (Solo has some examples of those miracles.) That's also true.
Solo, about the flight altitude (as far as I know):
It is known that storks try to get as high as possible on a thermal before they start crossing the water... but afterwards, as there are no new thermals to pick up (no land), they will lose height, inevitably.
Their flight altitude will not be high when they cross the sea. Probably less than 10 m.
Is the transmitter defect since the last data? Very unlikely, I think. He worked perfectly when Päike started the sea crossing.Urmas wrote: ↑October 10th, 2018, 6:38 am ... Last data of Päike are for sure alarming or rather missing of data is worrying. Last location shows normal flight over the Mediterranean sea, about 8km south of Schiza island. But that is not straightway flight southward, but more like hesitating go or not to go... Since that no GSM coverage in proposed time of transmission (after every six hours). ...
Think we need to be ready for losses in brood, unfortunately. But who knows the truth about Päike?
Did the transmitter fall off? Also very unlikely. The straps are very solid, and very carefully adjusted and fixed to fit the bird.
Did Päike manage to reach Africa? The shortest possible distance was 450 km. Päike flew, at that moment 18 km/h. At that speed, it would have taken her at least 25 hours of wing flapping to reach Africa, probably more. She took off at 13:45 (local time). So that means that she would at the earliest reach Libya at 14:45 on the next day! (And that she would have to fly all night long in the dark.) I am very sorry to say this, but I really doubt that our little Päike was able to do this. It has been too far, too long, too difficult, in my opinion.
But Urmas added: "Who knows the truth about Päike?" or as Liz said: "Sometimes miracles happen." (Solo has some examples of those miracles.) That's also true.
Solo, about the flight altitude (as far as I know):
It is known that storks try to get as high as possible on a thermal before they start crossing the water... but afterwards, as there are no new thermals to pick up (no land), they will lose height, inevitably.
Their flight altitude will not be high when they cross the sea. Probably less than 10 m.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 77
- Joined: July 14th, 2016, 1:44 am
- Location: Finland
What was cause of death of those Latvian storks? And how many storks were found after death? And why storks are so easily dying?Hellem wrote: ↑October 14th, 2018, 4:36 pm
A bit statistics
During 2013-2017 28 Latvian young storks got transmitters, only Mare (started to her first migration 17.08.2016) is still alive
12 BS died in Europe during their 1st-2nd months of migration
3 BS died in Turkey and 1 in Israel on their 3rd-4th months of migration
8 BS died in Africa (5 during their 3rd-5th months of migration, 2 on their 7th month of migration and 1 (Raitis) lived for 11 months after his migration began)
2 BS (Aivo and Sarma) died in Europe on their first spring migration in the age about 1 year
1 BS (Kate) died in Saudi Arabia being more than 2 years old
The BS Feja was the only one who flew over the Mediterranean Sea
https://www.movebank.org/panel_embedded_movebank_webapp
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 23861
- Joined: October 19th, 2015, 7:18 pm
Hellem, TY
(detailed report by Dr. Maris Strazds - FB Melnais stārķis https://bit.ly/2AaNwir)
little mistakes
- AIVO - adult male stork: "Aivo is 7 years and 286 days old!" at 13.3.2018 (FB Melnais stārķis) - "the story of Aivo has already ended on April 24th - when he returned to Poland from the flight to Latvia, hurrying near Belostock in a swarm of meals, he was probably surprised by fox." (FB Melnais stārķis)
- SARMA (data on map: 2015-08-04 10:20:20 - 2016-10-22 15:30:31) becomes silent by travelling back after summer before she crossed the Gulf of Suez to Africa, i.e. perished in Egypt, South Sinai Governorate
- RAITIS (data on map: 2016-08-06 11:00:07 - 2017-06-10 15:30:17) hatched May 15 , i.e. perished age 13 Month
- MARE we only hope, last data 1.10.2018 (2017: "There was no news from Mare since 25th October but she is finally in GSM coverage and we know she is in the western Ethiopia. Her location wasn’t known for 56 days.")
(btw. Aivo: 16 days without signal from transmitter - new data from RO, 151 days without any signal from his wintering area)
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 23861
- Joined: October 19th, 2015, 7:18 pm
we allways, we all birds - naturals reason (predators, illness, weather, ... etc. ) or humans reason (electrocuting, killing, poisoning, ... etc.) - e.g. The only survivor of the first year - Mellene - was shot/Ukraina and also Meja in Croatia on her first migration route
detail report by Dr. Maris Strazds - FB Melnais Starkis https://bit.ly/2AaNwir
- Liz01
- Registered user
- Posts: 72352
- Joined: January 21st, 2014, 2:06 pm
- Location: Germany
I have made pictures of all Estonian Black Storks
It was a very complicated job. Anyone who wants to use them for the migration route, may use them.
The first picture is without name.
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 24099
- Joined: June 28th, 2012, 4:33 pm
- Location: Tallinn
solo , thank you for correction my mistakes, I should have been more attentive
Raitis - I wroute about migration months not about age but there is also mistake, must be - 10 months of migration
Raitis - I wroute about migration months not about age but there is also mistake, must be - 10 months of migration
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 23861
- Joined: October 19th, 2015, 7:18 pm
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 567
- Joined: August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am
- Location: Finland
Thank you Raija for the fine explanation !
Then to all of you: I understand the seriousness of Päikes situation, but I'm so crazy that I do not want to believe the worst yet (or not at all). That because some chance of good news still exist, maybe very small, but they exist.
Liz01 nice birds... the bird without name is of course Kati !
Then to all of you: I understand the seriousness of Päikes situation, but I'm so crazy that I do not want to believe the worst yet (or not at all). That because some chance of good news still exist, maybe very small, but they exist.
Liz01 nice birds... the bird without name is of course Kati !
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 45
- Joined: October 11th, 2018, 6:43 pm
- Location: Sonoma, CA USA
ha ha! thank you liz!
- baska
- Registered user
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: August 28th, 2011, 7:04 pm
- Location: Odenwald/Hessen, Germany
Hello everybody
While you were discussing KARULA is flown further to the lowlands of Çukurova ! The best route he could take !
KARULA
last update : 14.10.2018
distance : 3961 km ( 241 km )
The lowlands of Çukurova is a large stretch of flat, fertile land. It belongs to the most agriculturally productive areas of the world. And at the border to the Mediterranean are several lagoons located. A wetland of international importance and an important stop over for migrating birds.
While you were discussing KARULA is flown further to the lowlands of Çukurova ! The best route he could take !
KARULA
last update : 14.10.2018
distance : 3961 km ( 241 km )
The lowlands of Çukurova is a large stretch of flat, fertile land. It belongs to the most agriculturally productive areas of the world. And at the border to the Mediterranean are several lagoons located. A wetland of international importance and an important stop over for migrating birds.
greetings from Baska
We are living in a dangerous age. Human beings are controlling and dominating the nature, before they have learned to control themselves.
Albert Schweitzer
We are living in a dangerous age. Human beings are controlling and dominating the nature, before they have learned to control themselves.
Albert Schweitzer
- Michi
- Registered user
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: May 4th, 2013, 3:30 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
Good sunday evening,
Update MARU
Last data: 14.10.2018
Distance: 3314 km (+ 7 km), same area
Our dear is still in her fishing ground in the river Fosa. It's exactly the same area like yesterday and the day before yesterday.
Update MARU
Last data: 14.10.2018
Distance: 3314 km (+ 7 km), same area
Our dear is still in her fishing ground in the river Fosa. It's exactly the same area like yesterday and the day before yesterday.
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 3327
- Joined: September 14th, 2009, 11:54 am
- Location: Estonia
Please forgive my silly questions - when a stork is flying above the sea and falls into the water 1) does he get drowned right away or does he keep floating for some time; and 2) does water get into the transmitter and stop transmitting the data or is the transmitter waterproof, at least for some time? Maybe then for the first migration of BS the time interval for sending data (especially when they start crossing the Mediterranean) may be set for four hours instead of six? In this case the signal comes from one and the same spot for some time and tells us a lot about the situation. I may be totally wrong, just silly thinking...
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 20685
- Joined: September 20th, 2008, 1:40 am
- Location: Winchester, UK
Summi, I don't know if there is any information about the fate of a black stork once it has fallen into the sea. Likewise, the transmitter.
I do know that the cost of retrieving data from the satellite company is - well, expensive, so it may be a financial burden for Kotkaklubi to collect data more frequently. This doesn't answer your question - maybe someone else has this information?
Whether to feel sad or hopeful - there have been enough examples of a bird and its transmitter being out of range of a signal for some months. It is possible that we may get more news next spring.
Even if it seems unlikely, it is a possibility.
I do know that the cost of retrieving data from the satellite company is - well, expensive, so it may be a financial burden for Kotkaklubi to collect data more frequently. This doesn't answer your question - maybe someone else has this information?
Whether to feel sad or hopeful - there have been enough examples of a bird and its transmitter being out of range of a signal for some months. It is possible that we may get more news next spring.
Even if it seems unlikely, it is a possibility.
- Michi
- Registered user
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: May 4th, 2013, 3:30 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
Karula
Baska , yes, it's great and astonishing that Karula knows the right, the very best route. I'm very happy that she/he took this way. She has made an excellent flight in the last days! I'm impressed.
I would like to show how near Karula is to the routes of her father Karl and Edi. I hope you don't mind.
It is admirable.
Baska , yes, it's great and astonishing that Karula knows the right, the very best route. I'm very happy that she/he took this way. She has made an excellent flight in the last days! I'm impressed.
I would like to show how near Karula is to the routes of her father Karl and Edi. I hope you don't mind.
It is admirable.
-
- Registered user
- Posts: 77
- Joined: July 14th, 2016, 1:44 am
- Location: Finland
I have a picture about GSM coverage in Greece but I don't know how upload it here. It is in my laptop (hard drive) but also there: https://www.jammer-store.com/greece.html.
Can somebody tell me how to do the upload. I do not use any cloud service.
Can somebody tell me how to do the upload. I do not use any cloud service.
- baska
- Registered user
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: August 28th, 2011, 7:04 pm
- Location: Odenwald/Hessen, Germany
Hello Michi ! Never mind !Michi wrote: ↑October 14th, 2018, 8:55 pm Karula
Baska , yes, it's great and astonishing that Karula knows the right, the very best route. I'm very happy that she/he took this way. She has made an excellent flight in the last days! I'm impressed.
I would like to show how near Karula is to the routes of her father Karl and Edi. I hope you don't mind.
It is admirable.
I think the route is predetermined by the mountains. It is quasi the only possibility (if a stork isn't silly)
greetings from Baska
We are living in a dangerous age. Human beings are controlling and dominating the nature, before they have learned to control themselves.
Albert Schweitzer
We are living in a dangerous age. Human beings are controlling and dominating the nature, before they have learned to control themselves.
Albert Schweitzer
- Michi
- Registered user
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: May 4th, 2013, 3:30 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Michi
- Registered user
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: May 4th, 2013, 3:30 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
Raija , you need a photo hoster to upload pictures here. Something like Flickr or similar.raija wrote: ↑October 14th, 2018, 9:04 pm I have a picture about GSM coverage in Greece but I don't know how upload it here. It is in my laptop (hard drive) but also there: https://www.jammer-store.com/greece.html.
Can somebody tell me how to do the upload. I do not use any cloud service.
I've tried to open your link, I wanted to upload the picture, but unfortunately my browser can't open the website.