Following Karls' Families

[sova]

When will the next map update come through?
Birdmap still shows data for the 18th.

Ari
For Karula from 18:00
For Aru and Oru from 20:00
.... and how the Juta, Jo and Anne have time

[visit]

Thank you Jo UK

Think i see it ;)

Is the transmitter changing the time zone automatically ?

Do you know whether the transmitter would change the time zone or is it keeping the same, whereever the bird would fly ?

[Ari19]

Ari
For Karula from 18:00
For Aru and Oru from 20:00
.... and how the Juta, Jo and Anne have time

I see, thank you Sova!
So the maps are update manually here and the birdmap
automatically?
Also, I thought the update was twice a day... maybe, I misunderstood.

Anyway, thank you all! I will practice patience!

[sova]

So the maps are update manually here and the birdmap
automatically?

The bird card updates Mr. Urmas, even if he has time. Sometimes there is no update for 2-3 days (bird card)

[Ari19]

The bird card updates Mr. Urmas, even if he has time. Sometimes there is no update for 2-3 days (bird card)

Thank you for taking the time to explain, Sova!
It is my first season watching the birdmap, so I had a lot of questions.
Thank you for the clear answer!

[Anne7]

Hello
Interessting that all three storks Oru, Aru, Eedi have in nearly the same time not flown ahead further but something like a rest.
(It remembered me to the information, i had heard some months ago, that the magnetic pols are moving and even could change again one day in the future (far away enough, i think ;) - and the question, what that will mean for the migration. *just a thought besides*)

visit
Here is some interesting literature about migration and geomagnetic fields.
For those who have the time and desire to read so much...

"The Earth’s magnetic field provides potentially useful information, which birds could use for directional and/or positional information.
... Although the behavioural responses to geomagnetic cues are relatively well understood, the physiological mechanisms enabling birds to sense the earth's magnetic field are only starting to be understood, and understanding the magnetic sense(s) of animals, including birds, remains one of the most significant unsolved problems in biology. ..."
Magnetoreception in Birds and Its Use for Long-Distance Migration
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/He ... ee284a.pdf

And there is also this very interesting paper:
How do migrating birds find their way?
Ying XIONG, TianLong CAI, FuMin LEI
Abstract: Bird are one of the most abundant and widespread groups in the world. With many specialized structures, such as plumage, air sacs, and hollow bones, most bird species have got flight ability to adapt various niches. Therefore, bird can migrate between wintering and breeding ground, which is usually a long distance, and it’s called migration. Bird navigation is important in migration and is a complex process, which attracts many scientists to dig in how bird finds its way. Since 1873, Charles Darwin has ever mentioned that bird might take the method of dead reckoning on a long-distance migration like human, but at that time no one made further progress. Until 1950s, Kramer firstly found that Common Starling (Sturnus vulgaris) can respond to solar azimuth via mirror test. From then on, many experiments revealed that at least four navigation mechanisms are used in bird migration via more than nine external factors. They are: (i) celestial navigation, celestial clues (e.g. solar azimuth, star position, and polarized light) are used during migration period. (ii) Olfactory navigation, odor distributing in the air forms odorous gradient map or mosaic map which can be detected, or can activate directly certain mechanism to navigate. (iii) Auditory navigation, infrasound (0.05 Hz) produced by mountains and rivers generate sonic gradient map. And (iv) magnetic navigation, geomagnetic field can be detected via magnetic materials or chemical magnetoreception to find correct directions.
Although many scientists approve that magnetic navigation may be the main mechanism to orientate and navigate, bird has never taken just one mechanism to migrate. Indeed, many species also use the other three mechanisms to calibrate direction, for example, Savannah Sparrow (Passerculus sandwichensis) can use polarized light to calibrate the magnetic compass at both sunrise and sunset. Different external clues correspond to different sense organs, so various brain areas should deal with information from different navigation mechanisms. The hippocampus participates in spatial perception and manages anything about celestial navigation via the tectofugal visual pathway and the thalamofugal visual pathway. The piriform cortex (CPi) is the main area to receive stimulation from olfactory bulb and determines how to migrate after receiving olfactory clues. Nervous systems of magnetic navigation include two parts which are trigeminus system and Cluster N. Despite the controversy whether there are some magnetic materials on bird, many experimental evidences have proved that magnetic materials detecting geomagnetic field involve to Trigeminus system. Cluster N, however, is an active area when bird migrates at night and it has an important role in transferring information from chemical magnetoreception to the hippocampus. As illustrated above, navigation mechanisms can get full information from many clues, and then, different brain areas trade off those and co-operate each other to make an elaborate map. Bird navigation involves the receptors to environment and the response of nervous system, so many issues are still maintained. The exact mechanism will be revealed with the new techniques and model animal applied.
http://engine.scichina.com/doi/10.1360/ ... g=fulltext

[sova]

Thank you for taking the time to explain, Sova!
It is my first season watching the birdmap, so I had a lot of questions.
Thank you for the clear answer!

In the beginning I did not even know which country I am in (nest watching) Latvia, Estonia ....

[Anne7]

We had a successful date session for KARULA

TRACKER MAP
Karula_August19_Afternoon
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o1gzj ... sp=sharing

Hurray! Our little KARULA has flown, today.
Not very far, but far enough to reassure me!



He made a short excursion to Haydarlar.


Karula's latest known location near Eymir.
Battery 81% (4033 mV) at 15:45:30 (UTC+3)

[Anne7]

A view on the water at Eymir, close to Karula's location.


© Osman Ünlü, Eymir köyü
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... Yirr=h1440


© Osman Ünlü, Eymir Yalnızsaray yolu
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... 53GT=h1440

A view on the beautiful scenery at Eymir.

© Osman Ünlü, Eymir Yalnızsaray yolu
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... WrSZ=h1440

[Solo]

...

birdmap update: ARU :-) and ORU and KARULA too


KARULA: already also here: https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 67#p686267

Good morning all together

the starting area

big photo: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... EvhcZ=h720

the ending area

big photo: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... h53GT=h720

[Bibibu]

But I also have to say honestly, I do not like looking at the nest any more, it makes me sad somehow. Then I hear the rustling of the trees in the background, then there's a knock on the door, the woodpecker and other birds are chirping and I always think, when I look, a stork is sitting right away.
I really have to close the camera for a while to get used to the fact that there will not be a stork there.
I'd rather enjoy the cards now, where I can see how the storks move out into life to discover the big world.
I always see this stork feather, the farewell gift, which always brings a few tears in my eyes. :)

[sova]

Anne
Karula's weather data is available
nice pictures (hopefully enough to bite full)


Aru has moved 1 km (a little bit?)

[Anne7]

But I also have to say honestly, I do not like looking at the nest any more, it makes me sad somehow. Then I hear the rustling of the trees in the background, then there's a knock on the door, the woodpecker and other birds are chirping and I always think, when I look, a stork is sitting right away.
I really have to close the camera for a while to get used to the fact that there will not be a stork there.
I'd rather enjoy the cards now, where I can see how the storks move out into life to discover the big world.
I always see this stork feather, the farewell gift, which always brings a few tears in my eyes. :)

Yes Bibibu, the maps distract us from the empty nest in Karula National Park.
And it's interesting to follow where our birds are.

Anne
Karula's weather data is available
nice pictures (hopefully enough to bite full)

Aru has moved 1 km (a little bit?)

Thanks, sova!
I'm glad you like the pics.
I think Karula probably finds enough food over there. Otherwise, he would fly to better places.

I will take a look at Aru's birdmap update straight away.

EDIT:
It looks as if Aru is still at the same little pond (or wetland) in Latvia.
I think it's normal that she/he didn't “walk” a long distance (or didn’t fly very long distances)

ARU
New birdmap data: 19.08.2019
Distance: 154 km (+ 1 km), the same area near Egļupe in Latvia




ORU
New birdmap data: 19.08.2019
Distance: 1106 km (+ 32 km), near the reserve "Rezerwat przyrody Warzewo" in Poland

Our little Oru flew once more back to the same location in Poland.

[Abigyl]

I hope birds won't be too fast

Weather in the european part of Turkey is very bad. It rains for days now.

Karula cannot go Norther!!

[Gigi]

But I also have to say honestly, I do not like looking at the nest any more, it makes me sad somehow. Then I hear the rustling of the trees in the background, then there's a knock on the door, the woodpecker and other birds are chirping and I always think, when I look, a stork is sitting right away.
I really have to close the camera for a while to get used to the fact that there will not be a stork there.
I'd rather enjoy the cards now, where I can see how the storks move out into life to discover the big world.
I always see this stork feather, the farewell gift, which always brings a few tears in my eyes. :)

i feel the same way. empty nests are a little sad, by their very nature, i think. best to avoid looking at them, unless you enjoy it.

[raven]

Thanks for explaining the navigation system of birds !

But that doesn't explain why the Black Storks in their first/the first years don't migrate with their parents and learn the best routes and feeding places. Wouldn't that be easier to overcome dangers ?

For example: The Northern Bald Ibis learns from his parents the migrating routes wiki - Bald Ibis - reintroduction. The Bald Ibis is a very social bird living in colonies, this could be an explanation.
Or did the evolution say: Well, lets try if migration alone is better or migration in groups. Maybe if they are in a group, the whole group perishes. If they are migrating alone, just one individuum dies.
Someone out there knows the correct answer ?

My second question: Oru ans Aru just have a "somewhere South" - direction imprinted, and when its time they get restless and leave.
What I definitely know: Birds tend to fly over land, esp. soaring birds which need strong thermal upwinds, so its no wonder that all use Gibraltar or the Bosporus. But how they know that from Estonia on they have to fly in South direction to the Bosporus ? Genetically imprinted ?
Did one bird of the Estonian population ever use the SW direction and crossed the Strait of Gibraltar ?

[Solo]

...But that doesn't explain why the Black Storks in their first/the first years don't migrate with their parents and learn the best routes and feeding places. Wouldn't that be easier to overcome dangers ? ...
Or did the evolution say: Well, lets try if migration alone is better or migration in groups. Maybe if they are in a group, the whole group perishes. If they are migrating alone, just one individuum dies.
Someone out there knows the correct answer ? ...

raven,
probably no one know why (and I think never will know), but maybe the evolution idea is true for black storks (btw. white storks pair and their off-springs also fly not together) ... I know family (humans) who for that reason fly not together in one aircraft (mother with one child, father with the second)
Tagged storks from one nest flew not the same way (and to same wintering place) and they are also data, that from same nest one flew westernflyway and the other the easternflyway.

Btw. young white storks migrate for the first time with storks that have not yet nested (first return home - usually third and fourth year birds) and/or adult individuals that have failed nesting, i. with several experienced individuals
- they are photos small mixed groups young BS and adult BS on their way to Africa (but very probably not their parents)

[Anne7]

Thanks for explaining the navigation system of birds !
But that doesn't explain why the Black Storks in their first/the first years don't migrate with their parents and learn the best routes and feeding places. Wouldn't that be easier to overcome dangers ?
For example: The Northern Bald Ibis learns from his parents the migrating routes wiki - Bald Ibis - reintroduction. The Bald Ibis is a very social bird living in colonies, this could be an explanation.
Or did the evolution say: Well, lets try if migration alone is better or migration in groups. Maybe if they are in a group, the whole group perishes. If they are migrating alone, just one individuum dies.
Someone out there knows the correct answer ?
...

My pleasure, Raven
I have often asked myself the same question.
Many migratory birds fly with the family or in larger groups. The adult birds take the lead, show the way and know the best stopover places. That makes the first migration a lot easier for young birds!
There is indeed a theory that says that Black Storks fly alone to spread the genes and the risks.
"A little here, a little there... it's not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket."

But I don't know any scientific article about that theory. Someone?

[Hellem]

19.08 New data by Karula on the birdmap - 443 km (+20 km), near Eymir in Turkey

[Solo]

... But how they know that from Estonia on they have to fly in South direction to the Bosporus ? Genetically imprinted ? Did one bird of the Estonian population ever use the SW direction and crossed the Strait of Gibraltar ?

- this question to ringing centre Estonia (and/or people who installed transmitters)

- tagged storks from Latvia and also from Poland flew this direction (westernflyway), also now are 3 young Polish storklets with telemetry device in Germany and one in France (more here: https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 64#p689364)

- the dividing line is - here (click):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_sto ... ration.png
(by Ulrich Prokop in Janssen/Hormann/Rohde (2004): Der Schwarzstorch. Westarp Wissenschaften Hohenwarsleben.)

or this map:


by Tamás, Enikő Anna (2012) in Breeding and migration of the Black Stork (Ciconia nigra), with special regard to a Central European population and the impact of hydro-meteorological factors and wetland status