Following Karls' Families

[balistar]

for everyone who is still asleep
....

Sova , you're sweet, thinking on the "longsleepers"

Thank you

[pazi]

09:38:30 - Karl II is here !!!

Woohoo!
Off to the nest thread!

Did the eye look like it really is Karl II, or did someone make a positive identification? I know it most likely is, but the tagged stork was caught near this nest last fall, and IF it was not Karl II, it is not completely unlikely that he might check this nest on arrival as well.

[aquiline]

for everyone who is still asleep

09:38:30 - Karl II is here !!!

I wasn't still asleep, but going to work and now at home again I saw this beautiful stork So all our doubts are vanishing into thin air. Let's hope for a successful season

[pazi]

Woohoo!
Off to the nest thread!

Did the eye look like it really is Karl II, or did someone make a positive identification? I know it most likely is, but the tagged stork was caught near this nest last fall, and IF it was not Karl II, it is not completely unlikely that he might check this nest on arrival as well.

More pictures in the nest topic, definitely looks like Karl II, and treats the nest as his own.
(edit: not ten seconds in the nest and already tidying up and moving sticks around, I checked the video of the arrival)

[Michi]

for everyone who is still asleep

09:38:30 - Karl II is here !!!

Many thanks, Sova!

[Heloise]

Urmas, Jo, Juta, Anne, Sova, Michi, Solo,
thank you all for the excellent work you have done for a very long time to keep us informed.

Thanks Sova, for sharing the surprise and photo!
This suprise was really great and unexpected, many thanks, Urmas and your team!


I hope for a succesful season!

[Jo UK]

Heloise let's hope we can follow more Black Storks when the next migration begins.
For now, no more tracker maps here. Slightly sad, but it means that some of our birds are safely home and we can watch what happens next.
Which brings on another thought - do the birds have any sense of "home" If so, where is it? They spend four months in Estonia, then they travel. Their loyalty is to the nest which is one fixed place for them.
Any thoughts about this, anyone?

[aquiline]

Jo UK
I think migration birds have two fix points: the nest and the wintering area. Two different areas for two different periods of season/life.

[Trine]

Which brings on another thought - do the birds have any sense of "home" If so, where is it? They spend four months in Estonia, then they travel. Their loyalty is to the nest which is one fixed place for them.
Any thoughts about this, anyone?

Most of them choose to nest roughly in or near what can be called natal place, if I'm not mistaken. So, the places where they were hatched seem to be significant. And they have territories here, I think. I don't know if they are territorial in the south; if they are, the definition/content is probably different. If not home, it's a breeding place here. But which is 'home' and which is 'office', I could not tell One-to-one comparison is probably not applicable.

But those who have contributed to the thread "What we know about black storks" most certainly know more

Poetically, "my home is ... wings and wings and wings" (see p. 537 of this thread for the reference).

[Solo]

I think migration birds have two fix points: the nest and the wintering area. Two different areas for two different periods of season/life.

Aquiline,
this is also stated in the professional literature, but there are also documented exceptions (change of wintering ground and / or nesting site)

edit:
Adults show a real fidelity to their wintering sites, as they do for their breeding sites. Black Storks show therefore a territorial behaviour in both areas to preserve their resources. The first and second years of their existence seem to be dedicated to the search of sites that meet all the necessary features without having to compete with other individuals. As a matter of fact, young and immature birds show more erratic behaviours on the wintering and breeding areas.
source: Jadoul, G., Hourlay, F. & Toussaint, A.C. (2003) Suivi de la migration automnale de la Cigogne noire (Ciconia nigra) par télémétrie satellitaire. Aves 40, 155–164.

[Solo]

Most of them choose to nest roughly in or near what can be called natal place, if I'm not mistaken. ...

I know only one study on this topic - the dispersion of individuals is from several tens of km to more hundreds of km from the place of hatch

[Trine]

I know only one study on this topic - the dispersion of individuals is from several tens of km to more hundreds of km from the place of hatch

That's the scale I meant. Tens and a few hundreds is not much, considering the whole area where a black stork could possibly breed.

[Solo]

That's the scale I meant. Tens and a few hundreds is not much, considering the whole area where a black stork could possibly breed.

- only 1 study, only 32 black storks, only one state
- results: one of storks in this study returned to the hatching nest, average distance: 104 km, the farthest recorded distance: 490 km
(it seems male black storks return more often to the places that are not very far from their hatching place)

[Trine]

- only 1 study, only 32 black storks, only one state
- results: one of storks in this study returned to the hatching nest, average distance: 104 km, the farthest recorded distance: 490 km

What study is it? Tamas 2012 seems to list similar numbers (mean 140 km, min 0 km, max 421 km), but the number of storks seems to be 67 from certainly more that one country. Anyway, for me, a few hundred kilometers from a hatching place is little, given that the breeding area of black storks is a vast stretch of land from an ocean to another.

(Also, when Jo invited to discuss the "home" of the migratory birds I did not think she meant fully or exclusively scientific argumentation For a "home" is not a strictly scientific term.)

[Solo]

...

sorry, that I entered the discussion
for me, argumentation is always a matter of scientific knowledge - professional deformation

(Tamás Enikő Anna? I read )

[Trine]

sorry, that I entered the discussion
for me, argumentation is always a matter of scientific knowledge - professional deformation

(Tamás Enikő Anna? I read )

Argumentation, yes. But what about discussion?

Yes, I meant her, 2012, dissertation I suppose (the first thing that popped out in Google). Honestly, I am not a scientific storkaholic but still, what was your source? Asking out of curiosity.

[Solo]

Argumentation, yes. But what about discussion?
Yes, I meant her, 2012, dissertation I suppose (the first thing that popped out in Google). Honestly, I am not a storkaholic but still, what was your source?

František Pojer, 2009

(for ornithology (birds ecology) it is clear - both areas (nesting, wintering) are important for the existence of a given species or its populations)

[Trine]

Thank you, Solo
(Indeed, Tamás 2012 refers to this paper as the source of Czech data.)

[Treia]

Hello !

It would be nice if we could get a small memoir (obituary) about Karula on this topic,
I think he would be worth it. Would it be possible?

Kindly,
Treia

[Solo]

Treia,
summary about his paths - map is already here https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 48#p784548
When Anne feels better again (I believe that she will soon be active among us again), I think she will find time for another recapitulation of life story our young Karula :-(