Following Karls' Families

Migration Maps, Tõnn, Greater Spotted Eagle and Black Storks
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Anne7
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Re: Following Karl's Family

Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Sattelite view on Karula's visit to Stara Synyava, near the Ikva river.
Image

Karula was searching for food on the fields and in a drainage ditch alongside the edges of fields.
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The fields are probably floodplains of the Ikva River.
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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 5:52 pm

A beautiful view at the area in Stara Synyava (July 2017)

Image

© photo: Андрей Андреев

EDIT: Here is the link :D
https://goo.gl/maps/VwDacsaxqzm
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Post by Solo » September 19th, 2018, 6:01 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 5:52 pm
...
Anne, pls, put here also the link to nice photos or street view https://i.postimg.cc/sX84TL71/Anne.jpg
your work here is great - thank you :2thumbsup:

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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Solo wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:01 pm
Anne, pls, put here also the link to nice photos or street view https://i.postimg.cc/sX84TL71/Anne.jpg
your work here is great - thank you :2thumbsup:
Thanks for the hint, Solo!
I did not know where to find those links. :mrgreen:
Now, I do. :D

:wave:
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Post by Solo » September 19th, 2018, 6:21 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:15 pm
...
:thumbs: :D :wave:

Btw. I put back step by step the lost shots (previous year) first for Karl (Focuri area)

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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 6:24 pm

Solo wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:21 pm
:thumbs: :D :wave:
Btw. I put back step by step the lost shots (previous year) first for Karl (Focuri area)
OMG, that must have been an enormous work! :slap:
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Post by Solo » September 19th, 2018, 6:27 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:24 pm
...
step by step :whistling:
panoramio - more photos than google maps - is closed :bow: (but that photos are in my PC :D )

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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 6:32 pm

Solo wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:27 pm
step by step :whistling:
panoramio - more photos than google maps - is closed :bow: (but that photos are in my PC :D )
You are very well organised, Solo! :2thumbsup:
(I do not keep all pictures, I only saved my screenshots from the breeding season, not from the migration.)
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Post by Solo » September 19th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 6:32 pm
You are very well organised, Solo! :2thumbsup: ...
not enough :bow:

KARL
first update - (wider) "Focuri area" and more (Europe) (year 2016, p. 74 - 81, Aug. 25 - Sept. 24; Sept. 25 - Turkey) https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 34#p495834

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Post by Treia » September 19th, 2018, 9:23 pm

:hi:
First... Many thanks to Swenja for the link to Venty sky!

Next...
Anne7 wrote 18.9.2018:
I do not know how important the right wind direction might be,
but the wind will (probably) blow in the good direction (to the south) for our 3 youngsters on Saturday.
Then I must guess that also Karula will continue his migration 22.9.2018, or 23.09.2018. :whistling:
Anne wrote 18.09.2018:
For "scientific" purposes, it would be very interesting to mention each day the current weather conditions for each of our travelling black storks. Wouldn't it? Is there a volunteer to do this? (No pictures needed)
Yes, it would be an interesting addition, but I don't know if I can. Links > Is it so that the wind is blowing in the direction of the arrows? Must it be tailwind? Have to think about it, and learn to read and use those links better.

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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 10:32 pm

Treia wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 9:23 pm
Yes, it would be an interesting addition, but I don't know if I can. Links > Is it so that the wind is blowing in the direction of the arrows? Must it be tailwind? Have to think about it, and learn to read and use those links better.
:hi:
That would be really great, Treia! :thumbs:

Yes, the wind is blowing in the direction of the arrows.
For example: Northern wind is coming from the north and is blowing towards the south. The arrow points downwards, from the north to the south.

It sounds logical that black storks perform long-distance flights when they have tailwind. So when they migrate southwards in autumn, favourable winds are (more or less) coming from the north and (more or less) blowing to the south. That's what that scientific article says. And what we could verify by observing the wind directions.
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Post by Anne7 » September 19th, 2018, 11:15 pm

sova wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 11:00 pm
Question;
which height ?
10 m. above ground or rather 100 m above ground?
How many times a day?

Anne ... you and Solo have introduced a very high level :2thumbsup: of nivue. Not everyone can (not me).
Hello, Sova :hi:
I would say that for long distance flights 100 m or even 250 m above the ground would be a good average. (Solo, what do you think?) The wind is stronger at that altitude than on the ground. (When BS fly over the Sahara, they fly even higher.)
Once a day would already be wonderful! For example at midday? (12:00 PM)

Please do not worry about your capability, Sova, I honestly believe that everyone can do a lot more than he or she initially thinks. :thumbs:
We are all able to learn new skills. :nod:

Just an example of using VentuSky:
VENTU SKY for KARL's location on next Saturday at 12:00 PM shows that the wind will not be favourable (theoretically)
https://www.ventusky.com/?p=47.16;27.59 ... 0180922/10

(The link can be found and copied on the VENTUSKY map when you click the 'share' button, at the upper right corner.)

Image

But it doesn't necessarily have to be so sophisticated.
For this example, simply writing Karl 22.09, Southern wind, 19 km/h would be enough information. :laugh:

Good night, everyone!
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Post by Liz01 » September 20th, 2018, 6:48 am

sova wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 11:00 pm
Question;
which height ?
10 m. above ground or rather 100 m above ground?
How many times a day?
Good Morning Sova and all. :hi:

Flight high by the Black storks is 100 - 250m

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Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 10:20 am

Good morning, everyone! :wave:
Thanks, Liz and Sova
sova wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:14 am
20.Sep.
Good Morning
Just a try...
Karl (19.09.) Romania
WOW, Sova, this is really great! :thumbs:
So much information!

But a lot of work, no?
If it would be easier or faster for you, this would be enough:

Karl, Romania, 19.09, 12:00 PM
TEMP: 23°C
WIND (250 m): 7 km/h
Image


And, facultativly, a second wind map
WIND (100 m): 8 km/h
Image
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Post by Solo » September 20th, 2018, 10:30 am

Anne7 wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 11:15 pm
... I would say that for long distance flights 100 m or even 250 m above the ground would be a good average. (Solo, what do you think?) The wind is stronger at that altitude than on the ground. (When BS fly over the Sahara, they fly even higher.)
probably the wind is not so much necessary :puzzled:
wiki BS: "black stork is assisted by thermals of hot air for long-distance flight"
wiki WS: "storks rely on the uplift of air thermals to soar and glide the long distances [/color]of their annual migrations between Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa; flocks spiral upwards on rising warm air until they emerge at the top, up to 1200–1500 m above the ground (also higher - SK WS this year: 4160 m. n.m ! in the middle part of the Taurus mountains: Bolkar Dağları).

Influence of weather conditions on the flight of migrating black storks http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... /1695/2755
Abstract
This study tested the potential influence of meteorological parameters (temperature, humidity, wind direction, thermal convection) on different migration characteristics (namely flight speed, altitude and direction and daily distance) in 16 black storks (Ciconia nigra). The birds were tracked by satellite during their entire autumnal and spring migration, from 1998 to 2006. Our data reveal that during their 27-day-long migration between Europe and Africa (mean distance of 4100 km), the periods of maximum flight activity corresponded to periods of maximum thermal energy, underlining the importance of atmospheric thermal convection in the migratory flight of the black stork. In some cases, tailwind was recorded at the same altitude and position as the birds, and was associated with a significant rise in flight speed, but wind often produced a side azimuth along the birds' migratory route. Whatever the season, the distance travelled daily was on average shorter in Europe than in Africa, with values of 200 and 270 km d−1, respectively. The fastest instantaneous flight speeds of up to 112 km h−1 were also observed above Africa. This observation confirms the hypothesis of thermal-dependant flight behaviour, and also reveals differences in flight costs between Europe and Africa. Furthermore, differences in food availability, a crucial factor for black storks during their flight between Europe and Africa, may also contribute to the above-mentioned shift in daily flight speeds.


:wave:

-

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Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 10:58 am

Solo wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:30 am
probably the wind is not so much necessary :puzzled:
Hello, Solo! :hi:

Through daily observations of the wind directions, we could find out if the wind has a significant impact on BS flight. :D
For "scientific" purposes, it would be very interesting to mention each day the current weather conditions for each of our travelling black storks. Wouldn't it?

This scientific study says:
"Wind direction has a strong impact on Black Storks' migration performances. During stopover days, the wind came most of the time from the south-west, and during long distance days, from the north-east or the north-west. The migratory behaviour of Black Storks is strongly influenced by the weather conditions. Rest days are associated with a series of interrelated conditions: high nebulosity, development of "bad weather" clouds, wind from the south-west and high relative air humidity."
(translated by myself)
http://www.aves.be/fileadmin/Aves/Bulle ... -4_155.pdf

Yes, sure, you are right, thermals are essential! BS fly on thermals for long flights. They climb up to over 1 km hight and then they glide down over sometimes very long distances. Probably that is when the wind direction really matters. :puzzled:
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Post by Liz01 » September 20th, 2018, 11:12 am

I found a new study about the fligth of black storks. There is no evidence of reasons for high flight and so on...it is only guesses.

I found very interesting studies today. I have to wait till I am at home. With handy it is :slap:

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Post by Solo » September 20th, 2018, 11:14 am

Anne7 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:58 am
... http://www.aves.be/fileadmin/Aves/Bulle ... -4_155.pdf ...
Anne, I read that - immediately when you put that here first time, I appreciate scientific info very much, thank you :thumbs: :D

they are more papers to that question, but I hadn't so much time for that
for me is important about "wind question" that:
-the periods of maximum flight activity corresponded to periods of maximum thermal energy, underlining the importance of atmospheric thermal convection in the migratory flight of the black stork
- tailwind was recorded at the same altitude and position as the birds, and was associated with a significant rise in flight speed, but wind often produced a side azimuth along the birds' migratory route (it was case also our Eedi in year 2015 and I know also another storks with that problem)
Image

they are this time enough much answers in scientific papers, but also still very much question

:wave:

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Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 11:15 am

Liz01 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 11:12 am
I found a new study about the flight of black storks. There is no evidence of reasons for high flight and so on...it is only guesses.

I found very interesting studies today. I have to wait till I am at home. With handy it is :slap:
Oh, that's interesting, Liz!
Yes, please participate. :D
:wave:
Solo wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 11:14 am
...
-the periods of maximum flight activity corresponded to periods of maximum thermal energy, underlining the importance of atmospheric thermal convection in the migratory flight of the black stork
- tailwind was recorded at the same altitude and position as the birds, and was associated with a significant rise in flight speed, but wind often produced a side azimuth along the birds' migratory route (it was case also our Eedi in year 2015 and I know also another storks with that problem)
...
Thanks, Solo!
I suggest that we observe! This is an opportunity.
I personally believe that tailwind will significantly help the BS to fly faster and thus further,
and that (strong) headwind could make long flights (in the right direction) nearly impossible...

Let's find it out. :D

PS. You wrote: also higher - SK WS this year: 4160 m. n.m !
4160 m above the ground or above the sealevel? (What is n.m?)
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Post by Treia » September 20th, 2018, 11:26 am

:hi:

Sova has done such a great experiment,
so that in my opinion he/she could continue updating wind directions.

It's an interesting addition to anything else interesting!

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