Following Karls' Families

Migration Maps, Tõnn, Greater Spotted Eagle and Black Storks
Post Reply
User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Following Karl's Family

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 4:43 pm

Solo wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 4:30 pm
- this time they fly usually not long distances :laugh: (they migrate now no)
- If it is stiff headwind (and birds would have to spend much more energy), they stop and wait for better weather conditions. This also applies in the case of rainy weather and other negative factors. .... - Anne, that is scientific fact, no too early conclusion :mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
Solo, as I said myself, it is far too early to make any conclusions.
(I mean on our own observations here)
It will take weeks or months to see any correlations.
We will see how the weather and the wind directions are when our BS fly southwards. And also when they take a break.
This is a little experiment. :D Some additional information.

Of course, they will most probably suspend their flights when there is a strong headwind or rain... I'm glad that we agree on that. :laugh:
But what happens when there is a moderate headwind? Or no wind at all?
Or wind from the west or from the east?
And when will our BS decide to continue their journey?
Are they just waiting for favourable weather, right now?
Will they fly longer distances if they have strong tailwind?

This kind of observation is interesting, I believe?
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
sova
Registered user
Posts: 14943
Joined: October 14th, 2015, 7:11 pm

Post by sova » September 20th, 2018, 4:47 pm

OK Anne ... now I understand it.
That means Karl's data is also wrong. Last dates with him are from 18.09.
Now I do not change it anymore but I know how it works

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 4:55 pm

sova wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 4:47 pm
OK Anne ... now I understand it.
That means Karl's data is also wrong. Last dates with him are from 18.09.
Now I do not change it anymore but I know how it works
:2thumbsup:
We can probably use the weather data that you made for Karl (19.09) and for Karula (20.09) tomorrow!
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
Liz01
Registered user
Posts: 49747
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 2:06 pm
Location: Germany Ribnitz-Damgarten

Post by Liz01 » September 20th, 2018, 5:07 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 4:27 pm
Just for comparison: we have new data on Eedi (20.09)
4764 km (+148 km)
Eedi is already in Saudi Arabia. :laugh:

https://up.picr.de/33868985rf.jpg
Thank you Anne, for all you'r work here. It is much! :bow: :2thumbsup:

I'm very happy that he arrived safely Saudi Arabia

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Liz01 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 5:07 pm
Thank you Anne, for all you'r work here. It is much! :bow: :2thumbsup:

I'm very happy that he arrived safely in Saudi Arabia
Me too, Liz!
It is always a little scary to follow their migration.
There are so many challenges and dangers. :slap:

Yes, it is much work.
When you feel better and have more time, you are welcome to help a little, Liz. :laugh:
I would really appreciate that!
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
Liz01
Registered user
Posts: 49747
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 2:06 pm
Location: Germany Ribnitz-Damgarten

Post by Liz01 » September 20th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 5:13 pm
Me too, Liz!
It is always a little scary to follow their migration.
There are so many dangers. :slap:

When you feel better and have more time, you are welcome to help a little, Liz. :laugh:
Anne, I can help in the end of October! It's a bit late, I know :bow:

Black Stork flight ect...
At the moment, a lot of data is collected, because they need to know how endangered the black storks are in the vicinity of wind turbines.
This includes their flight and the flight height.
Unfortunately, everything is in German. Data are from 2017!
Anne, I will provide the dates and links on the weekend.I have to translate a lot. Saturday I'll be ready! :laugh:

Much is unknown in the black storks.
So, what you have suggested is a good thing! Collect data in relation to the weather/wind conditions. The sun seems to play a big role on very long flights. But I have to read more, before I can say something about it.

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 5:28 pm

Thanks, Liz.
I look forward to the texts... and to your help. :D
:wave:

Yes, the sun is important for soaring birds.
"Thermals are columns of rising air that are formed on the ground through the warming of the surface by sunlight." The warmer the ground, the stronger the thermals! That is probably one of the reasons why BS are able to cover very long distances when flying over the Sahara (extremely hot sand and rocks = strong thermals).

There are also other sources of "rising air".
About "lift" and "soaring":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_(soaring)
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
sova
Registered user
Posts: 14943
Joined: October 14th, 2015, 7:11 pm

Post by sova » September 20th, 2018, 5:48 pm

My God ... I'm not a meteorologist.
Do not know if that is relevant. :puzzled:

Have now tried something ... eg. Izmir (Turkey)
20.9. - 17:00
100 m - 17 km / h
250 m - 22 km / h

Gusts of wind - 33 km / h (do they matter?)

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 5:53 pm

sova wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 5:48 pm
My God ... I'm not a meteorologist.
Do not know if that is relevant. :puzzled:

Have now tried something ... eg. Izmir (Turkey)
20.9. - 17:00
100 m - 17 km / h
250 m - 22 km / h

Gusts of wind - 33 km / h (do they matter?)
:mrgreen:
Sova, yes, I believe it could matter.
But I'm not a meteorologist, either. :laugh:
So maybe we should ignore the wind gusts, except maybe if they are very strong, as in stormy weather??? :puzzled:
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
sova
Registered user
Posts: 14943
Joined: October 14th, 2015, 7:11 pm

Post by sova » September 20th, 2018, 5:58 pm

Well ... well, we can still look back when it matters
:wave:

Solo
Registered user
Posts: 17187
Joined: October 19th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Post by Solo » September 20th, 2018, 6:10 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 4:43 pm
...
Anne, you can read answers also in that paper "Influence of weather conditions on the flight of migrating black storks" - I put the link here today (and they are also more). We have not enough input data to do correct conclusion about anything.
We can learn much about migrating (and wintering) behaviour also without this "experiment".
That my opinion.
:wave:

Btw. they waiting not for favourable weather - it is very, very important preparations time for their long, hard, dangerous, ... migration route to their wintering area (more BS with satellite tracking - young and adult from PL, CZ, HU - are still all now in Europe, only Eedi is exceptio :mrgreen: )

Solo
Registered user
Posts: 17187
Joined: October 19th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Post by Solo » September 20th, 2018, 6:17 pm

Anne7 wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 5:28 pm
... That is probably one of the reasons why BS are able to cover very long distances when flying over the Sahara (extremely hot sand and rocks = strong thermals). ...
Anne, not probably, that is the reason why (but BS using wings flapping more often than WS and not only to flying above big water areas = area without termals)

(I was ill this week = I have more time, that ends and my contributions here too.)
:wave:

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 6:24 pm

Solo wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 6:10 pm
OK, Solo!

In my opinion, it might be interesting and maybe useful to collect these weather data.
We do not necessarily have to agree on everything, do we? :mrgreen:

I will continue to read that study (the link you posted). :2thumbsup:
I did not finish it yet.

I wish you a quick recovery and hope that you are already feeling much better!
:wave:
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

User avatar
Liz01
Registered user
Posts: 49747
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 2:06 pm
Location: Germany Ribnitz-Damgarten

Post by Liz01 » September 20th, 2018, 6:40 pm

Anne, Sova and all

another good tool is here
https://earth.nullschool.net/#2018/09/1 ... 873,11.764

For settings cklick at the word earth. Use the cursor to zoom in to an area.
You can also rotate the globe with the cursor.
If you know the GPS coordinates, you can enter them directly.
Image

You can see the current weather and a day back. You can see the wind force in different heights...

EDIT:I forgot! Move the cursor to the place where you want to have data. They will then be displayed.

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 7:41 pm

Liz, this app is giving a wonderful "3D" view on the airstream and the winds moving around our planet. :thumbs:
I love to explore it! :laugh: Thanks.

But, of course, it's up to Sova to decide which app she prefers to use.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Treia
Registered user
Posts: 362
Joined: August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am
Location: Finland

Post by Treia » September 20th, 2018, 8:28 pm

:hi:
This usual again... while we are waiting for the continue to their trip,
and If I looked right, so...

Karula > stopped somewhere near Yemtsi in Ukraine 20.08.2018 when 952 km
Karl > stopped somewhere near Focuri in Romania 23.08.2018 when 1283 km
Päike > stopped somewhere near Marus route in Ukraine 13.09.2018 when 1249 km.
Maru > He/she came to Ukraine 31.08.2018, then 01.09.2018 to the area of Dnister River, 02.09.2018 Bebel'ka River and Naraivka River near Medukha, and 04.09.2018 somewhere near Dolyna, so she seems to follow Dnister River. Then 08.09.2018 she came somewhere to Tyshkivitsi and Vikno, and so on.....but still in Ukraine.

So... Karula has now been over 4 weeks in Ukraine, and also Karl has been 4 weeks in Romania. Päike has been only 1 week near Marus route, but Maru has been about 3 weeks in his/her feeding and resting place.

Eedi (as everyone knows is also from Karula Forest) continued to travel long time ago, so it could be thought that also Karl's family will do so soon.

And...Happy birthday to Karula and Päike!

:wave:

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 9:08 pm

Treia wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 8:28 pm
Thanks, Treia, for these facts. :2thumbsup:
I believe they will soon move on.


TODAY'S SUMMARY

KARL
No new data today
Last data: 18.09.2018
Distance: 1742 km (+ 41 km in 2 days)

MARU
Last data: 19.09.2018
Distance: 2660 km (+ 0 km in 1 day), same area
Temp: 22°
Precipitation: 0 mm
Humidity: 60%
Wind 100 m: S 7 km/h
Wind 250 m: S 6 km/h

PÄIKE
Last data: 19.09.2018
Distance: 1360 km (+ 1 km in 1 day), same area
Temp: 21°
Precipitation: 0 mm
Humidity: 60%
Wind 100 m: S 8 km/h
Wind 250 m: S 15 km/h

KARULA
Last data: 19.09.2018
Distance: 1896 km (+ 45 km in 1 day), same area

Abbreviations for indication of the wind directions
Image

Good night, everyone.
:wave:
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Treia
Registered user
Posts: 362
Joined: August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am
Location: Finland

Post by Treia » September 20th, 2018, 9:40 pm

… fine summary, but what was the winds direction?
… and fine photo of arrows with abbreviations!

Good Night!
:wave:

User avatar
Anne7
Registered user
Posts: 5035
Joined: April 15th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Anne7 » September 20th, 2018, 9:43 pm

Treia wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 9:40 pm
… fine summary, but what was the winds direction?

Good Night!
:wave:
S

Sleep well! :wave:
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Treia
Registered user
Posts: 362
Joined: August 11th, 2018, 9:42 am
Location: Finland

Post by Treia » September 20th, 2018, 9:54 pm

Thank you :rolleyes:
and Good Night !

:wave:

Post Reply

Return to “Migration Maps and News”