How do you say - - ?

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alice44
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Re: How do you say - - ?

Post by alice44 » November 27th, 2011, 1:47 am

I haven't been to the wikipedia yet and I need to look up estuary (and I will and ad information when I have)

Confluence is usually (always?) where one river flows into another.

An estuary is the mouth of a river -- where the river flows into the sea -- where salt and fresh water mix. They are vital places where things like shrimp hatch and are home to a great deal of wild life

Katinka

Post by Katinka » November 27th, 2011, 10:52 pm

Hello alice44,
my last post shows...I've been a bit convenient, using German to my countrywoman's reply...
English writing :blush: sometimes isn't my thing...
To the questioned phrase: at last I've found a good compromise.
I only forgot to give a hint (for those who need orientation) where to find my post dealing with rivers. So here it is:
Social Corner » Seasons » Autumn and Winter in Germany

And an NB to a question in Sept. brought up by Liis - asking for the different usage of picking, collecting...
Yesterday I've been watching a large documentary/entertainment film about the Mississippi from its estuary to the sources. Apart from the educating character I heard a lot of music styles which I like since long - and of the history of the cotton fields.
A land owner was talking about the pros and cons of still cultivating cotton in this region. He said "...picking cotton..." but in this case the machines doing the work where meant.
But for my region with its wine cultivation here & there , I found 3 phrases in the LEO dictionary: grape harvest, -gathering and vintage :shock: .
I know why I'd better stay with my language: it seems not to know too much expressions for 1 thing!

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Post by Liis » November 29th, 2011, 11:00 pm

Cotton is of course picked. I have always been sure of that (why - no clue!).

Missing words - you have "snuva", "nohu" when you snivel, sneeze and blow your running nose until it is red like Rudolph the Reindeer's.

Shocking :shock: : there is no simple word for it in English?!

Sinusitis - not always. Nasal catarrh? Cold in the head - my nose is clogged, or running, or both.

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Post by alice44 » November 30th, 2011, 8:58 am

Katinka wrote:Hello alice44,
my last post shows...I've been a bit convenient, using German to my countrywoman's reply...
English writing :blush: sometimes isn't my thing...
To the questioned phrase: at last I've found a good compromise.
I only forgot to give a hint (for those who need orientation) where to find my post dealing with rivers. So here it is:
Social Corner » Seasons » Autumn and Winter in Germany

And an NB to a question in Sept. brought up by Liis - asking for the different usage of picking, collecting...
Yesterday I've been watching a large documentary/entertainment film about the Mississippi from its estuary to the sources. Apart from the educating character I heard a lot of music styles which I like since long - and of the history of the cotton fields.
A land owner was talking about the pros and cons of still cultivating cotton in this region. He said "...picking cotton..." but in this case the machines doing the work where meant.
But for my region with its wine cultivation here & there , I found 3 phrases in the LEO dictionary: grape harvest, -gathering and vintage :shock: .
I know why I'd better stay with my language: it seems not to know too much expressions for 1 thing!
We understand that writing in a second language is a lot of hard work -- we appreciate your efforts and the insight it gives us (my french is terrible and I think I would be too shy to write in a french forum :blush: ) Thank you for the link to the first post as I had missed it. :blush:

And your comments on picking cotton and mentioning music made me think about the phrase -- guitar and banjo picking -- I think just playing one string at a time.

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Post by alice44 » November 30th, 2011, 9:05 am

Liis wrote:Cotton is of course picked. I have always been sure of that (why - no clue!).

Missing words - you have "snuva", "nohu" when you snivel, sneeze and blow your running nose until it is red like Rudolph the Reindeer's.

Shocking :shock: : there is no simple word for it in English?!

Sinusitis - not always. Nasal catarrh? Cold in the head - my nose is clogged, or running, or both.
Liis except for reading early English medical documents -- from the 1500s and earlier I would never have seen the word catarrh (although it is possible that my country grandmother used that word when I was a child.)

Sinusitis seems rather an "educated term" -- maybe doctors are using it more now

head cold or cold in the head is a common term, but it might suggest a headache, along with a runny nose and in my case runny eyes

my nose was running until it was red.
my nose was running so much I rubbed it raw.

If your nose is stuffy you may not need to rub it raw.

(Often when I am sick my eyes run so much I cannot even see my nose, so who knows :slap: )

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Post by Liis » November 30th, 2011, 10:54 am

:wave: Hello, Alice
I am truly not pecking at English. In fact it would be so much harder to go from English to Estonian. But the differences are fascinating and intriguing.

Differences are not just differences.To some small extent words and usage in a language correspond to what you (need to) talk about. Given all other major influences, everyday usage in particular may reflect a bit of the real world of the language.

So Estonians have nohu - Swedes have snuva (season has started!) - Germans have Schnupfen, all very everyday words.

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Post by alice44 » November 30th, 2011, 11:15 am

Liis I most clearly noticed that the words one needs are the words one has, when you were working on fens and bogs and the like.

English is so widespread we should have a broad base, but there are still missing words.

--

We do have the expression cold and flu season, or just cold or just flu season -- they are pretty much the same. But then we say a summer cold is the worst.

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Post by Liis » November 30th, 2011, 6:31 pm

One thing I have noticed, in a small way, is that often, if there isn't an easy common name for a plant that I feel "should" be growing there - in the other language's territory, that is - then the plant simply isn't there even if climate and other factors seem similar and perfectly acceptable.
Remember the liverwort, the Hepatica, beloved sinilill, blåsippa? Rare, and not interesting as herald of spring in Britain.
Another case is Arnica montana, mountain arnica, well-known and quite powerful medical herb, grows in meadows and pastures. No reason that it should not grow in Estonia (or in Britain, come to that). Since there is a rather wide interest still in herbal properties of plants in Estonia it should be noticed and known. But it has no "common" Estonian name. Quite right, rare in Estonia, same in Britain.
Wild conjectures and generalizations!
But before Looduskalender I wasn't aware of all these differences, in the very nearest neighbourhood.

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Post by Jo UK » December 1st, 2011, 1:14 am

Liis wrote:Cotton is of course picked. I have always been sure of that (why - no clue!).

Missing words - you have "snuva", "nohu" when you snivel, sneeze and blow your running nose until it is red like Rudolph the Reindeer's.

Shocking :shock: : there is no simple word for it in English?!

Sinusitis - not always. Nasal catarrh? Cold in the head - my nose is clogged, or running, or both.
Colloquialisms - sniffles as in "She has the sniffles"
Runny or running nose.
I can't think of any other expressions!
Shock - well, that is just shock. Nice, short workd. Will if do?

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Post by Liis » December 11th, 2011, 11:01 am

Jo UK wrote: ----------------------
Colloquialisms - sniffles as in "She has the sniffles"
Runny or running nose.
I can't think of any other expressions!
Shock - well, that is just shock. Nice, short workd. Will if do?
Maybe the English-speaking community is a well brought up, polite society?
Illnesses should not be talked about, or so an etiquette guru told us yesterday, when a great part of the Swedish TV public were armchair party goers: the Nobel Prize awards and super-festive banquet.

But the baby son of physics award winner Adam Riess was said to be - "snuvig", "nohune" ...

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Post by Liis » December 27th, 2011, 12:47 pm

In Estonia now is the time to say
Head Pühade Jätku
(hereby wished to all of you!)

"Happy continuation of the holidays"
A very handy and nice custom when you happen to have missed the occasion itself ... :blush: :innocent:
But that is obviously not a phrase or custom much in use in English!
"God fortsättning" is the Swedish phrase.
What about other countries and languages?

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Post by Liis » January 1st, 2012, 4:21 pm

Looduskalender wished all a Happy New Year.


I wish I could bring across the Estonian words, Helgust uude aastasse, better. Helge, helgus means both light and happiness and luck, and the word itself, to me, is as a gentle, steady, warm light.
Happy new year, everybody!

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Post by Jo UK » January 1st, 2012, 4:47 pm

Liis, you do a marvellous job of interpreting into English, all the nuances of the Estonian language that we meet on this forum and on LK.
I wish you a very good New Year, and continued success for your translating efforts. Thank you :bow: :bow:

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Post by Felis silvestris » January 1st, 2012, 11:21 pm

Happy New Year to you Liis, from me as well! I really admire your translation work - you do what we share by three!
Helgust uude aastasse Liis and everyone else here!
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals” (Mahatma Gandhi)
"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



The Aquila Pomarina Collection

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Post by Liis » January 5th, 2012, 11:11 am

Thank you, thank you very much! :bow:

PS. And surely there are more people around who would like to share this fascinating work? Don't be shy, let us know that you want to volunteer!

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Post by Liis » January 30th, 2012, 1:54 pm

BIrd people, please help :help:

"päranipp", "päranipuala" = rump, rump area - or vent, vent area? Upper side or underside of the bird? :mrgreen:

"rump" is what Esterm, from Est. Ministry of Justice, says. Never felt right, though, for a number of reasons. But if the Min. of Justice says so ...?
Not to be found in any easy-to-get-at dictionaries, parallel texts, nice illustrations Estonian/English ... Quite often used in bird descriptions in Estonian, rarely in English.
THIS description of a jay set me thinking again ("Vent and undertail coverts white"). - Nice site overall, by the way. As non-birder, I love the labels for the various parts & feathers of a bird http://www.oiseaux-birds.com/article-de ... umage.html. Available in French too.

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Post by Jo UK » January 30th, 2012, 6:30 pm

To my English speaking mind rump simply means the rear end of bird, animal, person. When buying beef we can have various steaks - sirloin, rump, rib-eye, etc.

Vent - not so familiar with that. I will look around.

This seems quite clear on the subject! -

https://support.omlet.com/index.php?/Kn ... -vent-area

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Post by alice44 » January 31st, 2012, 7:57 am

Image

http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/staff/sandyho ... /index.htm

Image
External anatomy (topography) of a typical bird: 1 Beak, 2 Head, 3 Iris, 4 Pupil, 5 Mantle, 6 Lesser coverts, 7 Scapulars, 8 Coverts, 9 Tertials, 10 Rump, 11 Primaries, 12 Vent, 13 Thigh, 14 Tibio-tarsal articulation, 15 Tarsus, 16 Feet, 17 Tibia, 18 Belly, 19 Flanks, 20 Breast, 21 Throat, 22 Wattle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_anatomy

I think many bird books have similar information, but I am not sure that people like me know what they all these terms mean (my dad and I have interesting conversations when I try to describe where the yellow green was on a bird -- I always get the colour and the place completely wrong)

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Post by Kitty KCMO » January 31st, 2012, 9:34 am

Alice's photograph & chart are very helpful, I think. I have always considered the rump to be the hind end of an animal or person, i.e., the buttocks of a mammal or the posterior part of the bird where tail feathers emerge from & where the muscles that control the tail feathers are located. The vent, I have always thought, is the underside of the bird's rump from which the bird excretes or from which eggs are laid. So I guess it depends on which part of the bird you are intending to describe, whether it is twitching its tail, or pooping. :mrgreen:
Kitty KCMO

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Post by Liis » February 2nd, 2012, 11:15 pm

Thank you all!
It is roughly as I guessed - rump is the whole rear part, and more particularly upper or top or back side :mrgreen: , and vent area the belly side - what you might see in flight if it has a distinctive colour.

A bit of the trouble is that it is the authors writing and meaning something :book:, not me.

And as I have grumbled earlier, it is easier to be precise and readable in Estonian: the special terminology looks deceptively like normal Estonian words - such as "kanalised", roughly "hen birds", for Galliformes.

I don't always use the special words or scientific terms that exist for nearly everything - the young of different animals, words for the various stages of a chick's development ... Sometimes I do, but then it is more in order to present the word - interesting to know - than strict belief in "terminology" everywhere. After all, we can perfectly well talk of berries even if they in fact are drupes.

Any comments are always welcome and interesting.
Particularly, please do correct me when I use special terms in the wrong way!

(And just post it on the forum - no need to be discrete about it!)

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