A Place for Empty Nesters.

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Chimega
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Re: A Place for Empty Nesters.

Post by Chimega » January 6th, 2013, 1:04 pm

There has been sibling rivalry going on at the Florida cam with one of the eaglets attacking the other, a lot - already! :shock:
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

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airras
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Post by airras » January 6th, 2013, 3:14 pm

the great not to attack the small, in the eyes of the mother, I do not survive .... :cry:
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asteria
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Post by asteria » January 6th, 2013, 6:37 pm

If we don't want this nest to be empty the topic is wrong a bit...

Do bald eagles resemble rather WTE than SE or are they somewhere between(like Klaara&Klaus family)? Better to watch Sulli&Kluti case than Miks&Mairis or twoSpots.

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Post by Kukelke » January 6th, 2013, 7:48 pm

asteria wrote:If we don't want this nest to be empty the topic is wrong a bit...

Do bald eagles resemble rather WTE than SE or are they somewhere between(like Klaara&Klaus family)? Better to watch Sulli&Kluti case than Miks&Mairis or twoSpots.
The North American bald eagle forms a socalled "species pair" with the European white tailed eagle.

From wikipedia:
In biology, a cryptic species complex is a group of species which satisfy the biological definition of species—that is, they are reproductively isolated from each other—but whose morphology is very similar (in some cases virtually identical).

(...)

Examples

White-tailed Eagle and Bald Eagle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptic_species_complex
And from another wikipedia page, on sea eagles:
Three obvious species pairs exist: white-tailed and bald eagles, Sanford's and white-bellied sea eagles, and the African and Madagascar fish eagles. Each of these consists of a white- and a tan-headed species, and the tails are entirely white in all adult Haliaeetus except Sanford's, white-bellied, and Pallas's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_eagle

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airras
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Post by airras » January 6th, 2013, 9:44 pm

even two, although still punishing the little big, all the food it carries. :unsure: :unsure:
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asteria
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Post by asteria » January 6th, 2013, 9:51 pm

The North American bald eagle forms a socalled "species pair" with the European white tailed eagle.
Then the fate of the youngest depends on the amounts of food.

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Post by Kukelke » January 6th, 2013, 11:55 pm

asteria wrote:Then the fate of the youngest depends on the amounts of food.
Food doesn't seem to be an issue for this pair of bald eagles. At any given time I've seen at least 2 prey items on the nest. Right now there are 2 half devoured fish and an unidentified furry thing on the nest. This pair is very experienced and has raised a lot of chicks over the years.

Here's the history of the nest:
Year History
06-07 Active;Built a new nest north of Bayshore Rd: 2 chicks fledged
07-08 Active but fledglings not confirmed
08-09 Active; 2 chicks
09-10 Active; 1 chick
10-11 Active; 1 fledgling confirmed
11-12 Active; 1 fledgling confirmed


History of the Old nest in the "killed tree".
LE-26A: Donald road Nesting History
Strap Number: 30-43-25-04-00005.0000

Year History

90-91 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
91-92 Active, 1 Fledgling confirmed
92-93 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
93-94 Active, 3 Fledglings confirmed
94-95 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
95-96 Active, 3 Fledglings confirmed
96-97 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
97-98 Inactive
98-99 Active, 1 Fledgling confirmed
99-00 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
00-01 Active, 2 Fledglings confirmed
01-02 Active, 1 Fledgling confirmed
02-03 Active, two adults observed at nest tree 4/21/03
03-04 Tree observed dead 9/29/03. ES Staff inspected the tree on 9/29/03
and found the tree had been girdled by machete or hatchet. Birds have
been observed in the territory but did not nest this nesting season.
04-05 Active, Two adults observed incubating posture in Dec '04. 1 chick
fledged about April 6, 2005
05-06 Active, 1 fledgling confirmed
06-07 Inactive *Built a new nest north of Bayshore Rd (LEO26B). 2 chicks fledged at LEO26B

http://www.hancockwildlife.org/forum/vi ... de=&show=8
I'm not sure if it has been Ozzie and Harriet all the way since 1990, but these 2 eagles have at least been here since 2007:

"The eagles have had their names ever since they moved onto the property in 2007/08. Ozzie and Harriet" (= text under the actual webcam page).

Seems to me we don't have to fear too much for the wellbeing of these 2 eaglets.Also because bald eagles are partly scavengers too. In times of lacking food I can imagine that people will help out this eagle family and leave some roadkill or rabbit carcass or so somewhere close to the nest so they find it.
For now lets just enjoy the view of these adoring small fluffy wobbleheads, because before we know it, they will already look like this:

Image

and then like this:

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Chimega
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Post by Chimega » January 7th, 2013, 12:42 am

To be honest, I don't believe that sibling rivalry that results in death of an eaglet, is common in Bald Eagles. I was rather shocked to see this behavior the other day. There is video and there is more than plenty of food as well. These are well fed eaglets.

Harriet starts giving a warning call, then leaves the nest. Shortly afterward, the older of the two ( I believe ) attacks the younger sibling. I believe the worst attack is at 3:45 into the video.

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

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Post by Kukelke » January 7th, 2013, 1:17 am

Chimega, I've seen these two rascals pecking at each other ever since #2 crawled out of it's egg.

Earlier today #1 was being fed and then #2 pecked at him from behind, and when #2 got fed, it was #1's turn to retaliate.

But all in all it is true, as far as I have witnessed, that #1 pecks more often at #2 than the other way around.

Lets not forget how we sometimes feared for poor lil' Nori, when Elo again pecked at her. I know ospreys are a totally different species, but still. Btw, I recall that somewhere in the osprey topic someone told that he/she had been watching bald eagles and that they pecked much harder at each other than osprey chicks tend to do, and that no real harm was done to the bald eaglets.

I'm not too concerned now and think they'll manage, both of them.

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Post by Chimega » January 7th, 2013, 2:04 am

Hi Kukelke :wave:

Thanks for your explanations of what happened with Nori. I wasn't watching that nest at that time as at first, I feared for Nori's life. I really didn't think she was going to survive because she appeared so weak and I rarely saw her get food. I have watched so many nests, especially barn owls, where owlets died from not enough food and the final straw for me was the Molly & McGee box when it was announced that McGee (the male) was probably dead. I had just started to watch Nori and her siblings and parents when that happened. I was so devastated by that, I could not bear to become attached to another bird, only to see it die. So I began watching Stephi instead and you know what happened there. More heartbreak.

I am not particularly worried about these Bald Eagles as I have not actually heard of a situation where one eaglet kills the other in this species, although I am sure it may be possible. I think they are just finding their way around the nest and doing what eaglets do and will stop this behavior soon. There is nothing for them to be jealous over as they have plenty of food and enough for another 2 more eaglets if not more. LOL!
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

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Post by Baltar » January 7th, 2013, 4:56 am

Kukelke wrote:Lets not forget how we sometimes feared for poor lil' Nori, when Elo again pecked at her. I know ospreys are a totally different species, but still. Btw, I recall that somewhere in the osprey topic someone told that he/she had been watching bald eagles and that they pecked much harder at each other than osprey chicks tend to do, and that no real harm was done to the bald eaglets.
May be it's not a pecking of life or dead for food (both werent starving as far as I could see) and just a try to show how's the #1 youngling in the nest. Pecking order is very common for birds of all species. May be there is really need for this social hierarchy even with plenty of fish support.

With the Osprey family of Piret & Madis I think there was a similary pecking order with Nori at the end and they got fish all the day.
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Post by Maxiesma » January 8th, 2013, 4:35 am

Unfortunately, I do know of an instance where one baby did kill the younger because of lack of food. It was last year and I think the nest was in, I want to say Arkansas, not sure but know there was a video of the older one pushing the younger one out of the nest. The parents were having trouble getting enough food to feed both chicks and the older one finally pushed the younger one out. Very sad.

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Post by asteria » January 8th, 2013, 9:31 am

That is what I thought: when there is enough food it is sibling rivalry(Linda&Sulev 2009,2010, Klaara&Klaus 2009, Madis&Piret, 2012) and with the lack of food it may turn into cainism(Klaara&Klaus nest, 2010!!!)

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Post by Manu » January 9th, 2013, 8:15 pm

:hi: , because many of members following not all of the topics on LK I will post a Link to this topic
viewtopic.php?p=194660#p194660
Perhaps for some of you it is not really special, but for me it was today a wonderful and special experience.
Ospreys are not usual in my area (near Zurich/Switzerland) and that's why I couldn't believe I saw two of them :loveshower: .

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Post by meierlein » January 10th, 2013, 1:52 am

Manu wrote::hi: , because many of members following not all of the topics on LK I will post a Link to this topic
viewtopic.php?p=194660#p194660
Perhaps for some of you it is not really special, but for me it was today a wonderful and special experience.
Ospreys are not usual in my area (near Zurich/Switzerland) and that's why I couldn't believe I saw two of them :loveshower: .

:peek:

hopefully you will see the Ospreys tomorrow again ^^

I am looking forward to your movies and pics

:wave:

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Post by Eden » January 10th, 2013, 5:41 pm

Manu wrote: Perhaps for some of you it is not really special, but for me it was today a wonderful and special experience.
Ospreys are not usual in my area (near Zurich/Switzerland) and that's why I couldn't believe I saw two of them :loveshower: .
Hi Manu, because I lived not too far from Zurich, I was very interested to know, whether you have really seen an Osprey, so I asked an osprey-expert from NABU. He told me that the bird on your video and on the pic is a common buzzard (Mäusebussard), 99 % certainly. It often happens that these buzzards also have a white belly. I'm sorry...

But he also told me, that some ospreys are now overwintering at French atlantic coast, 2 of them came from East-Germany. This, I think, is really amazing and noteworthy.
Btw, in Germany, there is a group of ornithologists, doing nothing else but recording, on which strange and unexpected places birds have been seen.
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Post by Manu » January 10th, 2013, 5:55 pm

@ Eden: I know, the pictures and the video isn't good. But I'm really sure it was an osprey. Because the bird sat very close to the street ( 15-20 metres away) and he had the typical dark stripes on his eyes. We saw the bird really clear. And he was much bigger than a buzzard.
We saw this bird between Herdern/Lanzenneunforn Kanton Thurgau/Switzerland.

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Post by Eden » January 10th, 2013, 6:14 pm

Manu wrote:@ Eden: I know, the pictures and the video isn't good. But I'm really sure it was an osprey. Because the bird sat very close to the street ( 15-20 metres away) and he had the typical dark stripes on his eyes. We saw the bird really clear. And he was much bigger than a buzzard.
We saw this bird between Herdern/Lanzenneunforn Kanton Thurgau/Switzerland.
Then, you should maybe contact that group of ornithologists, I have mentioned? If you like, I can give you the telephone number for further information.
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.

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Post by Manu » January 10th, 2013, 6:30 pm

@Eden: That would be great to give me the phone number. Or I give you my number (on private message).
I try to make a GIF from the video, but it take some time.
Imagecreate an animated gif

The rest I will post later, now I have first to prepare dinner, otherwise my husband isn't amused :laugh:

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Post by Manu » January 10th, 2013, 7:59 pm

Here is the first GIF.
Image
Dinner isn't prepared :rotf:

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