Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

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Chimega
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Re: Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

Post by Chimega »

I just happened to locate this article on the net, regarding Nimeta's shooting and an account of finding him, all written in English. It was just published on November 19th (yesterday). It seems the website/group known as Raptor Politics from the UK has picked up the story. :thumbs:

http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/2012/11/19 ... led-eagle/
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

I'll send the link to Urmas, he's surely interested to read it! Thanks, Chimega!
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Post by Chimega »

You bet, Felis. While I was on the site, I explored around a bit, found other articles about other raptors in Europe who were killed and/or poisoned and also injured but not dead and read them. I found I could tweet Nimeta's article straight off their site so I did. If anyone here has twitter, I urge you to please do the same. Thanks! :wave:
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Post by Chimega »

For some reason, our petition or the petition site is down at this time. :rolleyes: I am hoping and thinking it's jut their servers going under maintenance. If it's not back up later today, i will email someone.

I really wish we could get more people to sign this and I don't know why they're not. I am going through every single venue I can find to post it and posting to individual groups and individuals, themselves. I am about to bang my head on the table. We really should have more than 1200+ signatures when I see petitions for just 1 single animal go over 60,000 signers. :faint:
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Post by Eden »

Is it planned to send the petition for a second time when more signatures are achieved?
Btw, we have 1296 signatures now, I think that's a remarkable result.
And would you tell us which animal got 60.000 signatures? :shock:
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Post by Chimega »

Eden, a bear got 60,000 signatures and more. The petition is still open and I am sorry, I don't know where it is now as it was weeks ago when I signed the petition for it, myself.
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Post by Manu »

Any news what's going on now with the petition about Nimeta?
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Juta just let us know there was an article today in Eesti Päevaleht (Estonian Newspaper):

http://www.epl.ee/news/eesti/hukkunud-m ... d=65360662

In short, some particles could be extracted and analysed, which proved the eagle was shot. Now some chemical analysations will follow.
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Post by alice44 »

Felis silvestris wrote:Juta just let us know there was an article today in Eesti Päevaleht (Estonian Newspaper):

http://www.epl.ee/news/eesti/hukkunud-m ... d=65360662

In short, some particles could be extracted and analysed, which proved the eagle was shot. Now some chemical analysations will follow.
This sounds good.
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Post by Chimega »

Good news, for sure. I read the article with the help of a translator :headroll: :laugh: But it sounded good to me. It looks like they are continuing analyzing the particles of the bullet or bullets but none of the translators seem to be able to translate this word - haavlitega. What does that mean?
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Post by Liis »

Chimega wrote:Good news, for sure. I read the article with the help of a translator :headroll: :laugh: But it sounded good to me. It looks like they are continuing analyzing the particles of the bullet or bullets but none of the translators seem to be able to translate this word - haavlitega. What does that mean?
"with shot" (plural) :wave:
"haavel, haavliga; haavlid, haavlitega" - one shot, with one shot; many shot - plural, with many shot" - the exotic Estonian grammar.

The good part is that the investigation is not closed.
That no chemical analysis had been made explains the official insistence until now that nothing could be said about the metal fragments.
Does anyone know what an analysis would tell about the firearm that was used?
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Post by Chimega »

Liis wrote:"haavel, haavliga; haavlid, haavlitega" - one shot, with one shot; many shot - plural, with many shot" - the exotic Estonian grammar.

The good part is that the investigation is not closed.
That no chemical analysis had been made explains the official insistence until now that nothing could be said about the metal fragments.
Does anyone know what an analysis would tell about the firearm that was used?
Hi Liis :wave:

Thank you for the translation. So they are wanting to know if there was one bullet or more than one. They just may be able to find out by breaking down the metal fragments found in Nimeta's body (each fragment would be tested by itself and not all mixed together) and if they are different compositions of metal, then I would say that would tell the authorities there were more than one bullet from different guns, perhaps. Each type of bullet would be made differently and very possibly out of different metals or compositions of metals. Different types of guns use different types of bullets.

I read the comments down below the article, too. Some people (probably hunters or supporters of the hunters) were saying that the metal fragments may have been in Nimeta's body for a long time and not the cause of his death. Well, they forget Dr Madis had Nimeta in his care at the veterinary hospital and if he had metal fragments or had been shot before, Dr Madis would have known and had a record of that and I am sure he also would not have released him into the wild. So those people saying that are wrong!! :nod:

And one or two mentioned that there were no bullet casings found in the area so they are saying no one shot Nimeta, there. Ha! What poacher or hunter/shooter committing a crime of killing an eagle and setting bait is going to be so stupid as to leave the bullet casings for evidence? None. They weren't stupid. They knew they had committed an illegal act so they picked up and removed all the bullet casings so they couldn't be traced! I hope the Minister Of The Environment realizes this. I am pretty sure she does! :nod:
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Post by Jürgen »

Chimega wrote: Thank you for the translation. So they are wanting to know if there was one bullet or more than one. They just may be able to find out by breaking down the metal fragments found in Nimeta's body (each fragment would be tested by itself and not all mixed together) and if they are different compositions of metal, then I would say that would tell the authorities there were more than one bullet from different guns, perhaps. Each type of bullet would be made differently and very possibly out of different metals or compositions of metals. Different types of guns use different types of bullets.

Most probably it was only one shot but if it was done with a duck shot (many little pebble like bullets coming from one shot) then naturally there would be more fragments in the body. Also if the bullet was made out of lead then lead has a bad habit of shattering into thousands of pieces on impact which also could cause the many little fragments. I do think it was only one shot that took Nimeta down and only one person is responsible for that.

And you are right about the casing, I do not think any hunter would be stupid enough to leave the casing on the ground as an evidence.
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Post by Chimega »

Hi Jürgen :wave:

I talked to Dr Madis last night, late, and he said there was lead in the bullet or fragments and that lead is the main metal in Estonian bullets. This is, of course, terrible, due to the fact that any carnivore or raptor that eats a carcass that is shot with lead, will wind up with lead poisoning, itself.

And he says to call these people by their rightful name, POACHERS. He says they are not hunters but POACHERS. :nod:
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Post by Eden »

Chimega wrote: And he says to call these people by their rightful name, POACHERS. He says they are not hunters but POACHERS. :nod:
I talked to somebody very well informed lately (CABS) and he told me that ALL the people who shoot illegaly birds have their licence for hunting or a permission to possess guns, no matter where he met them – Italy, Egypt, Malta etc.
But I don’t want to foreclose that the poachers are black sheep between the hunters, it might be a little step however…
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Post by Chimega »

This is exactly what Dr. Madis says: :innocent:
The investigation will expire after 2 years... They have asked from one of my colleague to "fish out" some fragments and yes he got out 3 metal fragments. As lead is one of the main component in the ammunition what is used in Estonia and its ballistic characteristics match the radiographic find, what is a gold standard proving shot injuries. Too bad those fragments will not give us no new knowledge (don't have name of the shooter on them) but only prove again what I have recognized in my expertise... lets hope that they will now put the energy and resources to cracking the circle defense of those local poachers (sorry but those people don't deserve to be called hunters, so lets call em as they are... poachers!).
Anyways, its a new kind of case for the Inspectorate as there has been nobody before who could determine criminal activities against wildlife and there will be more cases like that coming up as I plan to report all acts of that kind to the authority's. I hope they don't mind me poking around and discovering that everything ain't that good The collaboration between us and authority's is crucial and sometimes some heavy interest from abroad puts snowballs to move. At the end of the day lets keep our wildlife safe as it is an important part of our environment!
Cheers and thanks for all the help tough there is lot still to do, or how it said "Git-R-Done!"
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Post by asteria »

Why don't they check farmers and dove-breeders?
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Post by Chimega »

asteria wrote:Why don't they check farmers and dove-breeders?
I don't really have any idea how they check or what they do in their courts, etc. I guess we would have to go ot court hearings to find out and to ask questions unless someone else can answer that for us. :headroll:
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Thanks Chimega! I think it is really good if "we" keep up the pressure and keep on asking and maybe also try to keep the petition going! Just to make sure that they know we still keep an eye on this!

Edit: just found this on Estonian TV homepage: http://news.err.ee/environment/eeb3398d ... 0d47668bc5
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Post by Chimega »

Felis silvestris wrote:Thanks Chimega! I think it is really good if "we" keep up the pressure and keep on asking and maybe also try to keep the petition going! Just to make sure that they know we still keep an eye on this!
I am posting and reposting the petition whenever I can and I have a few people who are not members, here, who also repost. Plus I am using twitter to post it there as well. There is not a whole lot more I know to do, other than those venues.

I will be having some extensive medical tests over the next few weeks where my time may drop off for working the petition but I will do everything I can, before and after. :wave:
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