Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

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Re: Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

Post by Jo UK »

alice44 wrote:There is an article about the Environmental Inspectorate's conclusions on the LK front page

http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/15077

There is a comment at the end of the article, which I think we all agree with
The public cannot accept such a superficial investigation.

Alice44 - I just noticed this -- it is a strong statement.
Rightly so! It has aroused strong feelings around the world.
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Post by alice44 »

I completely agree.
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Post by Jo UK »

New topic - paintings of our ospreys and Stephi on Internet TV

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=530
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Post by Eden »

Jo UK wrote:So, we have not finished with this topic. The petition continues and LK will attempt further publicity to attract attention to this failed investigation.

I suppose the authorities are constrained by the limitations of investigating a "misdemeanor".
Even if they investigate “only” a “misdemeanor”:
I don’t understand why the fact that there have been plenty of dead animals is completely neglected. It is obviously that these cadavers were put there to attract raptors. Is it possible that so many calves die on a farm within a short time? I don’t think so. So they must come from a company which collects dead animals (Abdecker, Tierverwertung in German) from everywhere and which was bribed to empty their truck at this place. It is completely unlikely that such a company will confess anything, but one could at least ask….
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Post by Liis »

The dead animals are, I think, a separate enquiry that probably belongs to the Veterinary and Food Board (Veterinaar- ja Toiduamet).

The carcasses were most likely dumped in order to attract predators, for later or present hunting. The ear identification codes - that all domestic animals must have in EU - were cut off. There has been no mention of how long the carcasses might have been around.

Removing the carcasses is the duty of the land owner (RMK, State Forest Management Centre), but the hunting society that leases the hunting rights has said that they have done it already, "to keep the grounds tidy".


PS. Misdemeanour is not really "only" although it sounds very petty. This is the legal classification of various misdeeds and next step up is "criminal" which is quite a bit more.
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Post by Jo UK »

SUMMARY OF THE KUKU RADIO INTERVIEW WITH URMAS.

http://podcast.kuku.ee/2012/11/13/inter ... 11-130959/

The interview starts with a recapitulation of events by the interviewer.
Urmas mentions that judged from data stored in the GPS, Nimetu died at some time between 15.00 and 18.00 on the afternoon of October 2nd; it seems that the eagle may have flown 100-150 m from the place of being shot, maybe disappearing out of sight of the shooter. Nobody seems to have been searching for the shot bird and the transmitter had not been interfered with. Urmas found no visible signs of shooting on the site, but metal fragments showed up in the X-rays of the remaining tissues.
Urmas said that he had been telling people that eagles had not been shot in Estonia for some 10 years; now he felt that he had been misleading them.
On being asked, Urmas agreed that no one can have had any reasonable cause to shoot Nimetu, the eagle cannot have been attacking anyone or anything, and it was clear that it was not a natural death. It seemed to be a killing just for the sake of shooting ”as in South Europe”:
The Environmental Inspectorate started investigations immediately, but no results from the Environmental Inspectorate or the Ministry of the Environment have been communicated yet to anyone ionvolved.
Urmas also mentions that the Estonian Hunters’ Society have condemned what happened and started an internal investigation. He added, somewhat wryly, that no-one has stepped forward and confessed; (it did and does actually happen when protected animals are accidentally injured by shots or traps), and that poachers are notoriously difficult to catch.
The interviewer noted that interest has been great. abroad and that at the time of the interview there were more than 1000 signatures on the international petition; Urmas said that he has signed it himself but that it is organised by bird friends outside Estonia (in the US) although many Estonians too have signed it.
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Post by Eden »

@ Liis:

With other words: the hunters can acquire carcasses of domestic animals, no matter from whom and no matter what was the reason for their death (epidemic or “normal” disease) – due to missing ear identification codes it’s no more checkable – and can just throw them in the landscape? Is that legal?
I say nothing about the hunting method to attract predators or birds of prey with food….
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Post by asteria »

Eden wrote:@ Liis:

With other words: the hunters can acquire carcasses of domestic animals, no matter from whom and no matter what was the reason for their death (epidemic or “normal” disease) – due to missing ear identification codes it’s no more checkable – and can just throw them in the landscape? Is that legal?
I say nothing about the hunting method to attract predators or birds of prey with food….
All this is very suspicious and anyway hunting on WTE is forbidden.
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Post by Jo UK »

Perhaps we should distinguish between accredited members of Hunters' Associations, and poachers with guns. The hunters' Association has firmly denied that any of their members is involved.
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Post by Liis »

Eden wrote:@ Liis:

With other words: the hunters can acquire carcasses of domestic animals, no matter from whom and no matter what was the reason for their death (epidemic or “normal” disease) – due to missing ear identification codes it’s no more checkable – and can just throw them in the landscape? Is that legal?
I say nothing about the hunting method to attract predators or birds of prey with food….
No, the point is precisely that they cannot and must not do so and it is not legal. Both parties, the owner of the animal and the person who acquires it would probably be guilty of breaking laws, including leaving it in nature as here.
Basically dead domestic animals must be brought to a certified destruction/processing plant.
Hunters may leave certain residues of wild animals in the hunting area.
The Veterinary and Food Board did some more than just establish that the ear marks were missing. Removing the id mark was probably an offence too. But true, with the id mark missing it is much more difficult to find the offender/s (which of course was the purpose of removing the marks).
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Post by Eden »

Thank you for the information, Liis, that's what I wanted to know.
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Post by Chimega »

Thank you, everyone, for all your hard work, questions, translations and pushing the petition in every place you can. The petition remains open and is getting more signatures every day. I will continue to promote it everywhere I can. I urge you all to do the same.

Liis, thank you so much for your translation or for transcribing the interview with Urmas. It is so much better than trying to get an online free language translator to do it because they always mess up.

Yep, removing that tag or ear mark or any other identification mark that would tell where the livestock were from was a deliberate act to hide who has committed the crime.

But someone knows who did it. You can bet on that and you know they are laying low - maybe even hiding out, now. Maybe this will teach them a lesson for now and maybe not.

But they do need to understand and if necessary, be forced to be educated, that these WTSE are not killing livestock and game. Only fish.
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Post by Starling »

I´ll try to follow the headlines of a few Estonian online "news papers" if there´s something new about this case. So far I haven´t found anything. But otherwise the radio show / LK front page stories etc. have been positive, I think. :)

I really believe or want to believe the petitions/ individual letters can make a change. :nod:

A couple of weeks ago Vainamoinen posted a link of the shocking massacre of Amur falcons in India (in Stories & News topic here). I was very shocked about it and I was frustrated there´s not really much what to do to end it... :shock: But I still needed to do something. One week ago, last Friday I sent e-mail to Birdlife International, asking if they can help some way Conservation India to make end of this. I haven´t got any reply, but today I noticed from Facebook they are doing a campaign of it! :headroll: http://www.birdlife.org/community/2012/ ... and-india/

"We’d like to take this opportunity to thank every concerned individual who has written to us directly from all over the world asking how they and we might act to prevent this massacre from occurring again. We apologise for not being able to respond to every enquiry individually."

- It seems I was not the only one who wrote to Birdlife about it. :2thumbsup: Spreading the word and writing letters can (at least sometimes) make a difference! :hi:
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Post by asteria »

Chimega wrote:
But they do need to understand and if necessary, be forced to be educated, that these WTSE are not killing livestock and game. Only fish.
WTE also kill young cygnets, ducks and rabbits too(Linda and Sulev brought cygnets to their eaglets) not saying about pigeons, that is why I suspected farmers or pigeon owners from the very beginning. They are really mad about birds of prey. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Post by Eden »

Starling wrote:I´ll try to follow the headlines of a few Estonian online "news papers" if there´s something new about this case. So far I haven´t find anything.
What about now contacting the journalist Ulvar Käärt (EPL)?

I’ve read Vainamoinen’s posting and was also shocked about the massacre of Amur falcons.
When I saw the photos of the Indians, proudly carrying the falcons, I thought, that they not really know that they are doing something bad. They just consider the birds, “falling from sky”, as a gift and nice meal or possibility to earn money.
BirdLife writes:
“However, hunting in Nagaland has been an issue for many years and shifting deep-seated cultural perspectives is likely to be a lengthy process.”
So, I think too, it will be a long way and not too much will happen until next year.
I still hope the Indian Government and BirdLife will be successful.
Any idea what we could do beside give a donation to Birdlife? (is done)
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Post by Starling »

Is there anyone in Estonia who knows someone from the press and could do that? :puzzled:

Eden, so you didn´t look the video of the Amur Falcons. It is just horrible and unacceptable. :faint: :rant:
When I saw the video (about 2 weeks ago) I wrote to Conservation India´s FB page and asked if there´s something to do to help (writing letters to the government, giving donations etc.), but I didn´t get any answer. Somebody (local) said there it´s no point to write to the authorities. So I don´t know... But I´m very pleased now because BirdLife International is involved. :2thumbsup:
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Post by Eden »

I think I have only seen the photos, and this was just enough, because I then dream every night of these things.
Is it necessary to see the video to really understand?
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Post by Starling »

Eden wrote:I think I have only seen the photos, and this was just enough, because I then dream every night of these things.
Is it necessary to see the video to really understand?
I don´t recommend the video... I saw it before the bed-time and I couldn´t sleep peacefully. :shock: But I´m also glad I saw it. Because it made me wrote to BirdLife and now I could made the donation too. And now I can hope the killing will end some day (or at least decrease) ...
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Post by Eden »

I've seen the video now.
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