Latvian LSE Nest Webcam 2012

Lesser Spotted Eagles in Latvia
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Fleur
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Re: Latvian LSE Nest Webcam 2012

Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 5:43 pm

17:40 - Metra feeding

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I'm not sure, bt I think second Egg is hached :puzzled:
there are moved a little, but it could also have been the wing of the other


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Post by Bea » June 13th, 2012, 5:58 pm

Yes, the second eaglet has hatched around 12:30.

I asked our member Grieta about news in the Latvian forum and she told me, that the first chick still has no name and that Dr. Bergmanis will not invent in this nest .... so we will have to see how nature is going on .... :unsure:

Have got some feeding-pics, too:


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Nature does nothing in vain (Aristoteles)

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Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 6:02 pm

ok, thank you for info Bea :thumbs:
we will see

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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 6:34 pm

Fleur wrote:ok, thank you for info Bea :thumbs:
we will see
This is nothing to see, the second chick should be taken away. Otherwise... :cry:

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Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 6:40 pm

asteria wrote: This is nothing to see, the second chick should be taken away. Otherwise... :cry:

I do not quite understand, why?
they are afraid that the 2nd is not feeding by metra?

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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 6:43 pm

Fleur wrote:
I do not quite understand, why?
Because of inevitable kainism in LSE nests. In the case of LSE always works "The rule of one". Metra won't feed "Abel" and "Kain" will kill him. It happened in 2008 with Gints and Grieta chicks and in 2009 in Koit&Eha nest.

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Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 6:49 pm

@ asteria: and what will they do with the 2nd chick, in a reception educate ?

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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 7:29 pm

Fleur wrote:@ asteria: and what will they do with the 2nd chick, in a reception educate ?
In 2009 Spot finally killed her little sibling Spot II and then ate him. :cry: :cry: :cry: It happened on June,8, 2009 and Urmas said it always happens in LSE nests. In the nests of buzzards or owls kainism happens only because of the lack of food but in the LSE nests it is because of their instinct.

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Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 7:43 pm

asteria wrote: In 2009 Spot finally killed her little sibling Spot II and then ate him. :cry: :cry: :cry: It happened on June,8, 2009 and Urmas said it always happens in LSE nests. In the nests of buzzards or owls kainism happens only because of the lack of food but in the LSE nests it is because of their instinct.
ok, I did not know that from Spot / LSE nests.
From Owl I knew it.

thank you for the patience to explain it to me :2thumbsup:

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Post by Felis silvestris » June 13th, 2012, 7:48 pm

It is what is called "cainism" (German Wikipedia has a short article http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kainismus) and LSE do have what is called "obligatory cainism". In the database you will find several articles dealing with this!

What surprises me a bit is, that in this particular nest they won't take out a chick, as this is the nest which is, if you see the link I posted yesterday, propagated by Deutsche Wildtierstiftung on their homepage and will be seen also by many children! Even more so as Deutsche Wildtierstiftung is working with the project in Latvia to bring the Abels to Germany (like the unfortunate chick last year in this nest!) But I guess after what happened last year in this nest and to the unfortunate chick in Grieta's nest, nothing will shock people?
By the way, I read, that they usually are not taking out the second chick, but the first, and raise it until a certain time when the cainism drive is over (after a certain time it happens, if the second chick should happen to survive somehow that long it'll grow up too) and put the chick back into the nest.

But I guess, for me this was it for the time being watching this nest! I don't think, even after reading all what I read during the last year, and collecting the things for the database, I am yet ready to witness this! I have left this out as well when I read about Spot! Guess, I'm too soft hearted or don't know how to call it!

Now I am even more glad that Tuuli and Eha had only one egg!
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Post by Fleur » June 13th, 2012, 8:02 pm

as nature controls, I have no qualms.
It happens anyway, even though there is no camera. If children will see this, it is wise for parents to explain the children that this happens in nature, and not just nice things in nature.
It is hard / sad, but reality.

...edit: do not get me wrong, we often leave our human feelings speak. I try often to see what I see, not what I want to see

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Post by Felis silvestris » June 13th, 2012, 8:14 pm

I know, this is nature, and it happens right now, everywhere. But I think I am not ready to witness this, not now at this point of my life! And I know that there are others here who feel like this, the discussion has been there when Spot 2 died (that was before my time in this forum). I do know that children watch the osprey nest, very small children, it won't happen there, but due to the wide propagation of this nest in Germany, I guess there will be also children, and parents unaware of this and not knowing about cainism and the story ... imagine your 5-year old watches "the cute fluffy little eagle chick" and suddenly this cute thing hacks his brother to death and eats him ...
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Post by vainamoinen » June 13th, 2012, 8:14 pm

asteria wrote: This is nothing to see, the second chick should be taken away. Otherwise... :cry:
It's very risky to disturb eagles at such early nesting stage.This can lead to nest abandonment. Therefore second chick will not be taken out.
Kainisms is a normal, natural phenomenon that has developed in long evolutionary process. There is no need to see this as a tragedy.

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Post by Bea » June 13th, 2012, 8:22 pm

I supposed the discussions to run the ways they do now and that`s why I asked Grieta in time what will go on.

Everybody here can now decide to go on watching this cam or stop watching for some days ....
Nature does nothing in vain (Aristoteles)

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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 8:26 pm

vainamoinen wrote: It's very risky to disturb eagles at such early nesting stage.This can lead to nest abandonment. Therefore second chick will not be taken out.
Kainisms is a normal, natural phenomenon that has developed in long evolutionary process. There is no need to see this as a tragedy.
Well, it was tragedy when some night predator attacked Grieta's nest and took the chick away. Then it couldn't be prevented and nothing could be done. No choice. But now all is up to people. They save "Abels" and send them to Germany, they could do it now as well.

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Post by Lussi05 » June 13th, 2012, 8:39 pm

So the second egg has hatched. I had hoped that it wouldn't. If I remember correctly, the LSE is very vulnerable, and many eggs fails. Isn't it quite amazing that all four eggs, in the three nests, is successful this year, 100 %. And didn't someone say that this is a bad year for mice in Estonia? But maybe a good frog year, who also is a important food source for LSE's.. :nod:

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Post by Amsel67 » June 13th, 2012, 8:47 pm

From what I've read in a special book for birds of prey is, that LSE's do the cainism because they are evolutionary on their way to a "one-chick-clutch".

I dont understand why an endangered bird species reduces its chance to stay on this earth in such a way. Usually animals get more babies, the more they will loose on the way to adulthood.

(I hope you understand what I mean)

MAYBE this way gives them a chance to choose from 2 babies, which is the stronger, and then will have 1 baby left, on which they can concentrate. But that would mean, that they really choose the better baby, but they always do the older - younger chick-thing. (Kain-Abel). It is not usual that the older is the stronger chick.

I will go on watching this, although it hurts.

Can someone tell me, if the first baby was fed today? is there a partner, that brings food to the mother?
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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 8:49 pm

Metra looks so sad.

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Post by Lussi05 » June 13th, 2012, 9:08 pm

Amsel67 wrote: I will go on watching this, although it hurts.

Can someone tell me, if the first baby was fed today? is there a partner, that brings food to the mother?
I could not watch last time, in 2009. I just read the posts until it was over. I think I will watch this time, I don't know yet......It is very sad though:(

The chick has been fed today, it is picture of it further up the page. Metra has a partner who brings food, his name is Macho :wave:

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Post by asteria » June 13th, 2012, 9:11 pm

The first chick was called Miks/Mik?

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