Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis: Discussions

[ame]

My two cents:

That day that most people think there were three eagles battling over the nest, I thought there were four because I could see two on the nest, heard a third land in the attic & a few seconds saw yet another flying about overhead. I think the couple that has hopefully been mating & are seen visiting the nest frequently (& doing nestwork) is a new pair of eagles (the male is quite endearing with his chatty calls to the female as she does her nestwork) who will hopefully brood soon (we'll know for sure if & when she starts to lie on the nest). I think Robert & Bride have moved on to a new territory somewhere. I would hope that if brooding does take place, the PTB will come up with names for the new couple.

this could have been just one bird, first touching the top of the tree and then continuing the flight right away. eagles sometimes give a branch or nest a strong kick and continue flying without stopping.
did you hear (and see) the bird leaving the tree top after you saw the flying bird? if an eagle is seated on the top of the tree and takes off from there it makes usually a very noticeable jerk on the tree and a fairly loud sound of take-off.

i quite agree: Robert and his new Bride are somewhere else, either together or separated. Bride seemed to be lost when we saw her the last time. maybe Robert just needed some time alone and ran away from her. he didn't seem to accept the Bride.

the young couple who is staying here seem to be very inexperienced. they don't seem to know much anything about nest building nor mating. Viky in DD wrote today: "Both need some paraugdesmonstrējumu, otherwise they ''18 +' 'attempts to look either ridiculous dikti
In the second attempt, he was able to jump on top of a tree branch It's not surprising that the first eggs appear in 6-7 years, while learn that and how to do it and they take 1-2 years".
http://dabasdati.lv/forums/viewtopic.php?p=70711#p70711

[bobbcat]

this could have been just one bird, first touching the top of the tree and then continuing the flight right away. eagles sometimes give a branch or nest a strong kick and continue flying without stopping.
did you hear (and see) the bird leaving the tree top after you saw the flying bird? if an eagle is seated on the top of the tree and takes off from there it makes usually a very noticeable jerk on the tree and a fairly loud sound of take-off.

I am trying to recall that day & I don't remember hearing any more noise emanating from the attic but the bird I saw flying overhead (after hearing the landing in the attic) was from the left-hand side of the screen towards the right, so don't know how the bird in the attic & the one I saw in flight could be the same bird (remember too, this all took place while the couple was seen on the nest).

I am hopeful that Robert & Bride are still together (she seemed quite smitten) but he just was not ready, IMO, to settle down with her. In the case of BEs Harriet & new suitor "M15," they had several months to court before they started their mating & nestwork.

I am really impressed with all the progress newly named Egle & Ansis have made over the weekend; perhaps the joy & rapture of the Easter celebration has had its way with them.

[ame]

Discussions 2017

like a year ago discussions concerning identification of un-ringed eagles visiting the nest have arisen. i hope that this discussion as well as questions dealing with something else than observations will be discussed on this topic.
thank you for your co-operation!

about identifications:
only yesterday afternoon i made some pictures which clearly show (in my opinion) that there have been (at least) two spotty-bottomed girls.
viewtopic.php?p=514682#p514682
i also thought that earlier i was able to show that there were (at least) two females involved in the turbulence during last week. besides them there were (at least) two white-tailed males.
viewtopic.php?p=514541#p514541

what i tried to say when i wrote "it's the same girl" was that the first spotty-bottomed girl (who replaced Lady and first came to the nest in the morning on Feb 28, if i remember right) is the same as the spotty-bottomed girl who is staying here now. another spotty-bottomed girl was here during the weekend with a boyfriend (or a male who was not her boyfriend, yet?). it was quite a coincidence that two spotty-bottomed girls who look so similar came here. the difference is (the only clear difference in my eyes) in their tails. it would be an even greater coincidence if there were three such girls here within only a week! if the probability of one spotty girl coming to the nest within a week is let's say 1 in 10 (10 %), then the probability of two such girls coinciding is 1 in 100 (1 %). three similar girls would coincide here withing one week with the probability of 1 in 1000 (0.1 %).

[ame]

about the delays in the live stream i'm now so confused that i have no clear idea what the delay was in the beginning and did it change at some point or not. i measured the delay only once and noticed that it was about 10 times longer from the J-E camera than from the Estonian camera. the possible change from about 40 s to about 1 min 40 s is only a change of 2.5-fold.

in the field of physics where i worked a 10-fold (an order of magnitude) change was something worth considering. we worked with phenomena which ranged over many orders of magnitude (like on a Richter scale). those are the changes which i was trained to deal with and it is still under my skin. a 2.5-fold change was within error limits so that's why it didn't seem so big to me. i can't get rid of my training.

- of course if one gets a 2-fold salary increase (or decrease of to one half!) that certainly makes a difference.

[ame]

the male who has been at the nest with the spotty-bottomed female with the big black spots on the tail (the Anchor girl) has medium-sized black spots on his tail.
the male who was called Tramp had much bigger spots and so i'd like to call him Big Spots.
besides him there was a male who had very small spots on the tail and thus i called him Small Spots. he was at the nest on Feb 28th with the Anchor girl and quarreled with her.
viewtopic.php?p=513152#p513152

i have a lot of pictures of the eagles in my Photobucket albums. i haven't posted nearly all of them in the forum. everyone is welcome to have a look at the album pictures. the pictures may also be borrowed. if you decide to post them i wouldn't mind if you told where you got the picture from.

i have organized the pictures in each album in alphabetical order which is time order in this case (i may have forgotten to do it in some cases). the address of the album is this:
http://s561.photobucket.com/user/anmael ... t=9&page=1
there are sub-albums for each month and each month has a sub-album for each day. i had to change the name of the Feb-album because the Bucket misplaced my original Feb-album and i had to restart it. otherwise it should be straightforward and simple to navigate in the KOTKAS2017 album.

[Trine]

about identifications:
only yesterday afternoon i made some pictures which clearly show (in my opinion) that there have been (at least) two spotty-bottomed girls.
viewtopic.php?p=514682#p514682
i also thought that earlier i was able to show that there were (at least) two females involved in the turbulence during last week. besides them there were (at least) two white-tailed males.
viewtopic.php?p=514541#p514541

what i tried to say when i wrote "it's the same girl" was that the first spotty-bottomed girl (who replaced Lady and first came to the nest in the morning on Feb 28, if i remember right) is the same as the spotty-bottomed girl who is staying here now.

This is still rather confusing.
Yes, there were two females. One you called White-breast, the other was Pearly-back. The Pearly-back has the anchor tail.

Today you say that a spotty-bottom goes with the anchor-tail. Does this mean that the white breast goes now with the anchor-tail?

Original Erna had a very pearly back (Marfo provided pics). I believe the "perliness" depends on posture - it is better visible when the eagle bends her head down. I have observed the today´s girl bending her head down - in my opinion she has no such an outsanding pattern on her back.

There were several other people who also thought that it is not the same eagle that was here on Feb. 28. You also expressed the same thought before. That is why your current statements are a bit confusing. Neither have you provided pictorial comparison of the eagle on Feb. 28 and today.

As for the delay issue, it was mainly about making other opinions insignificant without really listening/understanding, and by providing contradictory arguments. I think it is solved now.

[Trine]

it was quite a coincidence that two spotty-bottomed girls who look so similar came here. the difference is (the only clear difference in my eyes) in their tails. it would be an even greater coincidence if there were three such girls here within only a week! if the probability of one spotty girl coming to the nest within a week is let's say 1 in 10 (10 %), then the probability of two such girls coinciding is 1 in 100 (1 %). three similar girls would coincide here withing one week with the probability of 1 in 1000 (0.1 %).

Well, there was the third spotty at the same time: March 3-4. Liz called her Super Spotty (whereas Erna was an "absolute spotty"). True, this eagle was clearly younger, and we do not know whether it was a boy or a girl. (Though its size allowed to hypothesize that it was perhaps a girl.)

I incline to think that spottiness is not a rare feature.
And neither is wandering widely around at the beginning of the breeding season.

[ame]

today's spotty-bottomed has the anchor-pattern on her tail. the other girl was spotty-bottomed, too, so spotty bottom cannot separate them from each other.

the pearly backed girl had the anchor-pattern on her tail. someone wrote in the beginning that she looked like she had been pooped on. that was perhaps so. i haven't seen as many pearls any more. i also haven't seen the white-breasted girl either. i'm checking my archive to see what her tail looked like.

on the whole i think that the white marks on feathers aren't as reliable as the tail patterns. white spot may be downy feathers getting loose and they may disappear. maybe the white spots on the breast were disarranged feathers? the tail patterns are very steady compared to them. moulting of course changes the tails for young eagles so they cannot be used reliably for identification from year to next if the observations do not form an unbroken chain.

tail patterns have also another great advantage: they can been seen rather clearly also in poor light (if the eagles show their tails). the lightness and darkness of the feathers depend on how dry or moist the feathers are: dry feathers are lighter than moist or wet feathers. wet feathers become very dark. the light level also changes the colours a lot.

the feathers on wings and back can be de-arranged at times so the small spots on them may change places. altogether i am so bad in "reading the plumage" that i don't trust myself in finding small decisive clues in the body plumage. Verotaja in DD is so much better in this task and she has written down the details there (i shall not look up them).

i shall also make some pictures for comparison and post them here later. comparison seems to be necessary after all although earlier it didn't seem to be necessary. that's why i didn't look so carefully earlier and i may have made too hasty conclusions. i am now making more pictures and i shall study them more carefully and tell later what i think i see in them. so far i'm finished with March 1st and i'm working on March 2nd.

in the meanwhile you all can have a look in my Bucket albums to see what i have found so far. the pictures may also be borrowed and used in comparisons if anyone of you wishes to make them. i have written in the titles of the new pictures what birds i think i see in the pictures.

[Trine]

Good Particularly the poop-argument

Just a reminder: the appearance of the spot marks depend on how the tail is folded, as i have many times pointed out. the difference may sometimes be baffling. (by ame, Feb. 19 2016, 9:36 pm).

This means that a lot of evidence is required. Hell of the work

I would drop the issue. I will happily call the eagle whatever the community decides - but there will probably always linger some doubt as when and with whom exactly she came. Can´t be erased. And this is OK, too.

[Marfo]

Here are some links to posts with pictures or videos from the two spotty females. Starting with the first spotted female which many (or everybody) named 'Erna'. Starting from Februari 28.
I will leave out the tufted eagle, the extreme spotty girly and one or two unidentified birds. I also leave out the confusing moments on the nest with the fights where nobody could see who was who.

Spotty girl one, 'Erna' who has spots on back neck an part of the back, also named pearly back and 'pooped on'. Only a few spots on her breast (which can be confusing).

viewtopic.php?p=513155#p513155
viewtopic.php?p=513405#p513405
viewtopic.php?p=513465#p513465

michi's post viewtopic.php?f=99&t=869&p=514326#p514326 She says it is Erna, she is right, but it looks as if she has not a lot of spots. Which is Michi's argument for stating it is not the female with the spots on her back. But it is the same female. We see that in this video only 7 minutes earlier (march 1).
viewtopic.php?p=513489#p513489

viewtopic.php?p=513562#p513562
viewtopic.php?p=513569#p513569
viewtopic.php?p=513612#p513612
viewtopic.php?p=513615#p513615
viewtopic.php?p=513646#p513646

Trine and Abigyl about the tufted eagle:
viewtopic.php?p=513761#p513761
viewtopic.php?p=513763#p513763
erna en raimis
viewtopic.php?p=514071#p514071
viewtopic.php?p=514080#p514080

Then there were all the fights, fights, fights

March 5
Spotty girl number two. Large. Remarkable eyes, large and long beak, hardly spots on her back, horse voice, the feathers on her head are also bigger and more distict, she has some large white spots on her breast. These look bigger when the wind blows them apart.
Also known as 'Egyptian girl'. Also called 'white breasted' by ame.
Looks a bit like a Harpy (eagle) when her 'hair' is blown upright.

New female 'Egyptian girl'. First appeared on: March 5 in the nest with Raimis.
viewtopic.php?p=514219#p514219
viewtopic.php?p=514224#p514224
viewtopic.php?p=514234#p514234 second video from 3:00min.
viewtopic.php?p=514266#p514266 second video.
viewtopic.php?p=514283#p514283 white spots on breast
viewtopic.php?p=514289#p514289 idem
viewtopic.php?p=514289#p514289 Right ame, this is not Erna.
viewtopic.php?p=513489#p513489
and today
viewtopic.php?p=514877#p514877 note the large spots on her breast and only a few on the back. The large straight beak.

6 March: Ame's videos from march 4
viewtopic.php?p=514542#p514542 first video, Erna lands in the nest (spotty back) And flies off. We can hear the horse voice outside the nest of 'Egypta'.
Second video: 'Egypta' lands.

Anne7 commented on the picture ame made; a comparison of the two females who landed in the two videos above
viewtopic.php?p=514542#p514542
She is right about who is who (in my opinion)

But you can all see for yourselves of course

p.s. oh yes, the last female also has a problem with her right wing. That is a distinct feature. Unless it heals soon of course.

[ame]

oh wau! thanks Marfo a lot!


i'm still making pictures on March 3rd. and i remembered the effect of opening the tail feathers wide and closing them tight, but i forgot to write about it again. thank you Trine for reminding us.
so i have a lot of those pictures coming.

edit: March 3rd album is ready.

[sova]

Marfo. . . . thanks for your work

[Anne7]

Thank you so much, Marfo!
You did a hell of a job!

I totally agree with you findings.
Spotty girl 1 = Erna
Spotty girl 2 = Egyptian girl (not Erna), the present girlfriend of Raimis.

And yes, I believe we can now all come to the same and final conclusion... I hope

[Trine]

Great, Marfo

For now, it is quite clear to me that the Pearly-Back´s (Erna´s) spotty back cannot be explained away by a poop. It is a distinctive and recognizable feature, and it was observable for many days.

About the tails I do not know. Maybe pearly-back Erna had an anchor-tail; maybe the present girl has too. But the present girl is not the same pearly-backed+anchor-tailed girl that was here since February 28. I suspect that the tail marks have created and will create confusion here. But ame may prove the opposite.

As Marfo noted, there were other features besides the "pearls" suggesting that the present girl is not the "original" Erna.

[Anne7]

Ame wrote about Spotty girl 1, on February 28th:

we could also call her Stripes. she has longitudinal stripes on both sides of her tail. anything goes as long as we know who we are talking about.

This is the picture of her tail, also posted by Ame, in the same post.


Edit: I don't know why the quality of this pic suddenly isn't ok anymore

[Trine]

Looks like the DD people have, thanks to Verotaja, also reached the understanding that the girl is not "Erna" any more

https://translate.google.ee/translate?s ... edit-text=

Though one can never be 100% sure with GT...

[Marfo]

Looks like the DD people have, thanks to Verotaja, also reached the understanding that the girl is not "Erna" any more

https://translate.google.ee/translate?s ... edit-text=

Though one can never be 100% sure with GT...

[Liz01]

I do not know if it is helpful. The male was seen first in January. For me it looks like the same tail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dIgX5cBkC4

Great work here I'm too tired to read everything

[ame]

Looks like the DD people have, thanks to Verotaja, also reached the understanding that the girl is not "Erna" any more

https://translate.google.ee/translate?s ... edit-text=

Though one can never be 100% sure with GT...

what? not Erna?
so far they have written, especially Verotaja, that it is Erna... or i have misunderstood what little useful-looking text GT has produced.
GT is unable to translate at least half of what people in DD write.

btw: talking about 'wasting' sex cells. i was once surprised to read that cats have induced ovulation. i guess that you know that in the end of copulation, when the male cat retrieves himself from the female cat she always suddenly cries and turns to him and tries to hit him with her claws. that's is because the penis of the male cat has sharp spikes all around it so that it goes in easily but scratches and hurts the female when the male pulls it out. the pain induces ovulation. in this way the eggs of the female cat are not wasted if she finds no partner.

[Liz01]

Her wing is injured. That may be the reason why she don't like mating. Maybe it happened during a mating?.....

.........
Edit: since all the visible problems (eye, wing, tail) are on the same side of her body, it could be that she hit something in flight. Yes, maybe a collision, I think.

Maybe it happened at 3.04. As she went overboard ?
A collision seems unlikely. There were so many possibilities to hurt, during the fighting for the nest.