Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis: Discussions

[Trine]

Just please don't laugh at other people's opinions.
(Perhaps you did not mean it but "laugh" and "rolleyes" were not appropriate in the situation where people are confused.)

[ame]

ok, sorry about that. i'll remove the smileys and the remark between them.

[Marfo]

I must say I agree with Hagnat. I was already writing a post about the events of the last days in which I (also) mention exactly this issue. But Hagnat says it much better.
Several times I have spent hours on end to find 'evidence' for my observations in endless rows of pictures and videos, often duplicates. It is undoable to go through 1100 pages (already) to find the right image. Because sometimes you have to go back in time if it's about identification.

You are missing the point if you say that people who don't like that should go to the discussion pages. The pictures themselves are not the problem. The point is that there are so many duplicates. When I was still making pictures I always took mine away if someone else already pictured an event. Not everybody does that. And I really cannot see what is so important about registering every visit of every tit or every eagle call. I think that the discussions are sometimes drowned in the picture overload.

Secondly, what is the reason you propose this division? You said that we have "repelled the professional ornithologists away with our idle discussions and speculations". Which is not a very nice thing to say when there are people here who seriously try to observe and to contribute to solving the puzzle. And who look first and write later instead of the other way around.
Yet later you say "in scientific articles the Discussion-paragraph is the most important one. there the observations are analyzed. then in Conclusions-paragraph conclusions are drawn based on the discussion (=analysis)".

So what do you do when you are not sure about the identification? You write down in Observations that an eagle has landed and then you go to the Discussions forum to write that you think it is Robert? Is that the 'scientific' approach you are aiming for?

[ame]

about the duplicate pictures: i also often delete my duplicates from my post and sometimes replace them with another picture. sometimes, however consecutive stills may show the details a bit differently (taken one frame after the other in rapid situations) so it is worthwhile to have more than one picture. if i need evidence of some event i go to seek it in my archive and make my own pictures. i usually don't seek them in these pages. these pages may help sometimes though. without reports on some seemingly insignificant beeps i would have missed some events. so go on reporting.

for searching some particular material you can use the forum's search functions. see the Questions an Help for advice on how that is done.

the proposal to have a separate discussion topic was not (again) made by me. i did not like the idea last year, and i continue to think that we might be better off with only one topic. this year i thought that it is time to try the division.

i also don't like the idea of limiting posting in any way as Hagnat and Marfo suggest. that would mean censorship. that is no for me. i for example delete any mails very reluctantly, only those with some hurtful content.

as you all may have noticed it is difficult, or even impossible to please all tastes. one wants this, the other wants that, the third something quite else. then some want things back as they were, but in a different style. what to do?

let's give this style a try, shall we?

[Hagnat]

..edit btw: we saw last year and in the beginning of this season what happened when discussion of observations was in the same topic: huge amount of pages! observations were drowned in the middle of discussion posts. clearly that was not good.

Managing the discussion is the solution then, not removing the discussion.
And pictures are not 'drowned in the middle of discussion posts'. They always stand out very clearly. And 99% of the contributions are pictures and video's.

... apparently this is a non-solvable problem, like the old dilemma: "if you bow to the West then you'll be showing your backside to the East. and vice versa."

Until now I only see you showing your back to the rest.

[Hagnat]

a...i also don't like the idea of limiting posting in any way as Hagnat and Marfo suggest. that would mean censorship. that is no for me. i for example delete any mails very reluctantly, only those with some hurtful content. ...

I am not talking about you removing pictures and I don't like it that you connect what I say with censorship. In the past you have removed already more textual contributions than I think was appropriate.
I just explain that to me moving discussions to a different topic is not the solution of the problem as I perceive it.
One of the causes of the problems is that for the modern 'twitter generation' words do not count anymore unless they are accompanied by more pictures, video's and rotating and jumping smileys than there are words.
A second cause is that people do not read or look what is already posted to see if their post is adding something or would be just the same and to look if posting three or more almost the same pictures and video's is necessary or that just one is enough to show the same information. This is also what Marfo was talking about.
Of course you can solve the problem (if you see it) by removing or moving contributions, but talking about it is probably more effective.
Now you are banning useful contributions because you seems to prefer the many thousands of the same pictures.
Please don't misunderstand me: I usually appreciate your pictures and video's.

[Marfo]

for searching some particular material you can use the forum's search functions. see the Questions an Help for advice on how that is done.

Yes, I know, I have tried often. But most of the time the search function finds 3270 matches. I am not exaggerating. It is only helpful when you are looking for a special word that is not often used. Not when you look for a picture of Roberts left side.

[ame]

.... Of course you can solve the problem (if you see it) by removing or moving contributions, but talking about it is probably more effective.
Now you are banning useful contributions because you seems to prefer the many thousands of the same pictures.
Please don't misunderstand me: I usually appreciate your pictures and video's.

i must protest against this: i seldom delete any posts and i certainly not have banned nor shall ban any posts.

Marfo, if you know the date you are looking for then use the Go-to-page button. then select some page more or less randomly some maybe tens of pages back to see where that will lead you. then repeat the go-to-page operation to the right direction, back or forth. soon you'll be able to find the day you are looking for. that's how i look for certain days.

[Sabrina71]

Hi All,

I don't warnt to write too much, I am not sure whether 2 threads are useful or not, as I don't write a lot here.
But I think what would really help is (as Marfo wrote), not to post every visit of every bird (others than eagles)....it is interesting - but the numbers of posts would decrease. Also: not every ruffling of feathers or every poop of the eagles have to be commented. That's just my opinion. Focus on important things...
I really love this forum - but it is really really hard to get an overview of important issues when you only have a bit time in the evening...
That the number of posts increased during last weeks "chaos" - That's normal...

[Trine]

Focus on important things...
I really love this forum - but it is really really hard to get an overview of important issues when you only have a bit time in the evening...

Just a remark: this is debatable and perhaps individual what is important and what is not important.
Also, imagine what if there were no forum.

[Janne+Ais]

...
But I think what would really help is (as Marfo wrote), not to post every visit of every bird (others than eagles)....it is interesting - but the numbers of posts would decrease. Also: bot every ruffling of feathers or every poop of the eagles have to be commented. That's just my opinion. Focus on important things...
I really love this forum - but it is really really hard to get an overview of important issues when you only have a bit time in the evening...

You hit the point!

[Sabrina71]

Trine:
Of course, it is debatable - but I am sure that those who are more experts than me and who are familiar in observing the nest, they know what is important to be documented...it is worth trying

[ame]

i myself have been happy in the past days when i have seen Robert pooping giant poops. it indicates that he has been able to catch food regularly despite of his sore foot. he is not starving. i don't believe that the Bride is feeding him. -the Bride, on the other hand, has only made wagtail-sized poops which is a bit worrying. she is so busy settling in that has she enough time to eat?

some people have been worried if he can use his foot but this shows that these worries are unnecessary.

[Sabrina71]

ame:
Ok, in this case I understand that Robert's poops are important
And I am glad he gets enough food

[Trine]

What if a student wanted to use the data of this forum in a seminar paper on eagles' metabolism - then every poop accounts (Presuming that the data recorded here will be availabe for a long time.)
Well, now I'm joking. Or... I don't know. I make living in science myself (not biology though), and there are situations I must record as many features as possible because in the process I do not know what is and what is not important in the end. Some petty details may turn out to be of crucal importance later, sometimes not for my own research but for e.g. a colleague. That's why I am a bit suspicious about the relevance debate.

But a kind of balance would probably be a good thing...
Edit: Ame's point above is a good illustration of what I meant with this post.

[laranjeiras]

I love all the pictures and would not like them to be discouraged - every poop, every angle, every little thing - all of these are valuable and precious. I think scientists are accustomed to looking through lots of material and they can scroll down - who knows, perhaps a picture will have just the detail they are looking for.... I also like the debates we have, the discussions over whether or not we think this is Robert, what happened to Durbe, and so forth.... Why is large quantity a problem? it seems to be a quality, a good thing. I am happy to look through two different sets of pages - discussion and the other one (what ever it is - I have to say, the difference has not quite emerged for me just now). It seems a pity to put people off posting their wonderful pictures we are so fortunate to be able to see! I feel gratitude towards the scientists who allow us to see these birds by setting up cameras - but I do not feel like a scientist myself, I do not feel it is for me to second-guess what they would find useful...

So - thank you scientists! but if we are to be 'useful' then clear instructions please!

edit: ps. I also wonder if 'Robert' is Robert - his tail seems less white than last season...

[Sabrina71]

Okay okay
That was just MY point of view (bot being a student or scientist - I am just an interested bird-lover with only limited time)
I understood that there are different interests....and not every interest can be satisfied - as often in life...

[ame]

copied and removed from the Observations.

Bride is so tender & sweet but poor Robert acts ambivalent; perhaps missing Durbe as ame said. He probably just needs some time. I love Bride already though; she's a magnificent bird.

ame, on the video taken today at 12:47, I could hear a third eagle calling from the distance while Robert & Bride were on the nest; this eagle sounded distressed to me.

i totally agree with you. it must be very puzzling times for Robert. first Durbe goes missing and then this 'chick' clings to his jacket like glued. on top of all she sometimes kicks him!
it must be very confusing.
but this 'chick' is going to look more and more attractive in Robert's eyes as days pass...

i can't remember any more what the calls at 12:47 were...

(this is exactly the kind of comments that belongs here, not in the Observations. sorry about this bobbcat, i hope you don't mind.
i shall also move the posts concerning raicu cristi's photo posting but later. i think we have a small language barrier with raicu cristi. i think that raicu cristi may not be aware of the new thread yet. raicu cristi does not come here very often...)

[Liz01]

Okay okay
That was just MY point of view (bot being a student or scientist - I am just an interested bird-lover with only limited time)
I understood that there are different interests....and not every interest can be satisfied - as often in life...

that's also my experience

[bobbcat]

....sorry about this bobbcat

Don't mind at all; it was my bad, as I forgot about the new thread. I cannot help but wonder if that distressed call came from Durbe or another eagle that is a part of this ongoing turf war for the nest.