Lesser Spotted Eagle Webcam Discussion 2009 ~ Eha & Koit

[asteria]

"Not to watch" is not a solution. The elder chick is not sensible, he is not aware of what he's doing. But we all realize what happens, we could save the younger chick but did nothing to do that. That is the worst thing. :protest:

Who lives near this camera? Or at least does not need a visa to reach the place?

[oliv]

When I began look at the camera in nature an elderly men told me that in nest for bird of prey never more than one chick used to survive. I was afraid for Tiny the owl and Kluti.But the man hade wrong. He have been working in the forrest and hadn´t the same knowledge as people here.
When we began look at Eha we was told that historical NEVER more than one chick will survive. I think we have to let it go on. We are here to look at the nature and it is in that way it will be. Awful to look at, but we can´t change it.

My English wrotig is not good, but I have to say it. Hope you can understand what I mean.

[juta]

"Not to watch" is not a solution. The elder chick is not sensible, he is not aware of what he's doing. But we all realize what happens, we could save the younger chick but did nothing to do that. That is the worst thing. :protest:

Who lives near this camera? Or at least does not need a visa to reach the place?

Asteria, the main aim of webcams are to observe and learn the nature, not to interfere and break in on.

[Jo UK]

Oliv, we can understand you clearly.

If anyone goes to the nest now, the adults will likely abandon the nest.
Perhaps Urmas can comment on this situation, if he has time to visit here.
We have read that in one part of Germany, the second egg is taken from LSE nests and incubated elsewhere, and those chicks live to migrate successfully. That is just one part of one country. In years to come, this may become a more widespread practice in other countries.

[asteria]

If we had not changed anything, not one but all the eggs from Klaara's nest would have been stolen by the marten.

[asteria]

Oliv, we can understand you clearly.

If anyone goes to the nest now, the adults will likely abandon the nest.
Perhaps Urmas can comment on this situation, if he has time to visit here.
We have read that in one part of Germany, the second egg is taken from LSE nests and incubated elsewhere, and those chicks live to migrate successfully. That is just one part of one country. In years to come, this may become a more widespread practice in other countries.

There are two ways:

1.Take away the second chick
2. Additional food, that would be too much for one chick, so he wouldn't have to fight for it.

[juta]

There are two ways:

1.Take away the second chick
2. Additional food, that would be too much for one chick, so he wouldn't have to fight for it.

That is not bad idea, but what to do with other nests? It is not only one lesser spotted eagle nest?

[Brit]

We have read that in one part of Germany, the second egg is taken from LSE nests and incubated elsewhere, and those chicks live to migrate successfully.

Yes, I have heard, that they take out the second chick and raise it for some time until it has a chance to survive, and than put it back in the nest, where the two can grow up.

[latgaliite]

Hi!

I think no food can save the little Spot, because it is not the reason why it is being killed by Spot #1. There could be a mountain of mouse and frogs, it still would happen this way simply because LSE do this and always did. May be it is sad, but I try to look at this without too many emotions, because we are a kind of intruders in Eha's and Koit' life (even if they don't know it) and we should respect them and the way they manage their life. In Germany they take the Abels out of the nest because LSE is almoust extinct in these regions, not because of some human feelings about poor little eaglets. I would be glad, if Baltic states could afford not to interfere into LSE life (except ringing and watching).

[Jo UK]

Even if there was more food, I don't think it would alter the bigger chick's behaviour. It is embedded in him/her to do that, no matter how much food there is.

[Kuremari]

Eha looks still wet, now she is preening herself

[Lili]

More food would mean just more food in the "pantry", not feeding more. There is now some prey lying in the nest...

Ps latgaliite I agree with every word you wrote

[macdoum]

its head-lock
look headlock:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chris ... adlock.jpg

armlock is a single or double joint lock that hyperextends, hyperflexes or hyperrotates the elbow joint and/or shoulder joint.

sorry i had to argue my point.

Kenny, as they say here YOU ARE TOO MUCH..!!!

[yarko]

Maybe it's the right time to read again Urmas's post from 24.May

Urmas said: "That's very kind of you all, discussing about possible rescue actions!
As we observe first time (maybe in a history) whole nesting period of lesser spotted eagle (LSE) pair - we wouldn't interfere in whatever reason.

There have been many projects in the near past, where one egg was incubated artificially and the chick put into nest again after a month, put into nest in other country (eg. Latvia-Germany) to increase population size.

But in Estonia LSE population is quite well at the moment and we rather should learn, what happens in nest naturally, though it could be hard to stand these observations.

Usually older chick will take all the food from parent (from Eha probably) and other chick simply can't survive. In one-two cases of hundred both chicks grow successfully up (never in that nest before we know)."

It's here:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=106&p=38771#p38771

[Jo UK]

Thanks for that reminder of Urmas's post, Yarko.

We can not allow human sentiment to cause interference in the lives of birds on just one nest.

[yarko]

Yes, I have heard, that they take out the second chick and raise it for some time until it has a chance to survive, and than put it back in the nest, where the two can grow up.

Yes ornithologists do that, when there is possible extinction in question.
As Urmas said, LSE species isn't under such threat in Estonia.
----------------------------------------------
I 'googled' about saving both (all) eaglets and found this:
http://simonthomsett.wildlifedirect.org/tag/eagle/
scroll down till 'Goodbye Vero's':
"/.../ Most eagles lay two eggs, 3-9 days apart. They hatch asynchronously with one being very much more robust than the other. The larger individual will almost invariably kill the younger sibling. The younger sibling has a miniscule chance and that is to kill its old sibling. Only one chick survives. /.../

/.../ If you take one chick away immediately at the hatch of the second chick, you can raise it in captivity, and produce twice as many as otherwise would be the case. But the hand-raised chick you kept would be a human imprint. /.../

/.../ When it comes to Abel rescue, I developed a technique that made sense but was physically demanding. Raise the chick in captivity for 10 days, take it back to its parents, swap it with the “wild” sibling. Take the “wild” one back. Raise that for 10 days. Take that back. ETC. Do this until they are 8 weeks old when they are large and nearly ready to fledge. Put them together and although they fight, they are equal combatants./.../ "

[oliv]

I have problems whit killing a mosquitos , and look here is hard.
I had the hart in my mouth when it was problem whit Tiny . There it was realy near the eye. For Spot 2 it is no hope I think.

[ergee]

If we had not changed anything, not one but all the eggs from Klaara's nest would have been stolen by the marten.

Good morning Asteria,

Can you prove that? What was "changed" ? Did you see it? . Martens do not always so! I know what I talk about while I've seen it from very nearby in Tirol as I lived there.
And maybe you could read what Urmas said, Jo put a link on page 39, june 4th at
12.19 am.
http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/4114

You are watching NATURE, nature can be cruel, but: it is not a Zoo, Tiergarten, where people try to decide what will be done and how the animals have to live.
Sorry, I don't want to hurt someone, but this is reality.

[Olga]

How I wish we could be not too emitional now.. It makes me sad too to know how poor are the possibilities for Spot junior.. I would not say that that 'nature' is 'cruel' (as a way it is, but there are so few words to describe the 'behavior of the Nature'! Nature has NO emotions of affects, feelings etc.. The emotional reactions of birds are different to humans. Animals can't choose how to react, we humans can!oh.. this is to difficult to me write in a language I do can NOT well..

Let's not, dear people, argue with too much emotional or affected words.. Written words are more heavy than spoken.. somehow they have more effect..

remember

A bird that you set free may be caught again, but a word that escapes your lips will not return.

edit: I know that I have no advices and I do not want to teach anyone.. I just thought aloud, be cause i try to think that there is not such a bad thing I cannot learn something of it..If I can not change the situation, ..i have no right to blame anyone.

[Urmas]

You all are right, including Asteria!

Thank you for searching of additional sources about cainism - that's why forum is launched... to get more information (directly through observations and with help of synergy).

I'm drying a bit indoor and then to field again...