Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis: Discussions

White-tailed eagles in Latvia

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Re: Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis 2016: Discussion

Post by ame »

Trine wrote:Yeah... Then any potential real discussion becomes - again - just an interruption to your calendar-style monologues. Don´t know if that is good...
But it is not worth of longer arguing. Particularly because there is hardly any discussion here these days.
who is arguing? i don't think that i am. :puzzled:

i also don't quite understand what kind of discussion you would like to have here, Trine. all kind of discussion here was zero for about a year. i think it is good that there is at least some reasonable use for this thread. as i wrote: if this thread is not to someone's pleasing then it is best not to read.

as long as things are running as they are now, with less and less events at the nest, there is no need for disentangling and summarizing what has been going on there. i predict that the 'home-playing' drive of our young couple will gradually extinguish and they'll just come to rest at the nest (like Vents and Shilute did) for the rest of the spring and summer.
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Post by ame »

in the following three posts you will find a short chain of discussion which was posted in the Observations-thread. i have moved these posts here because they were off-topic in the Observations-thread. i have, however, kept also the observational parts in the posts so that they can be seen here as they were posted.
On 19 Apr 2017, 20:39 Owlie wrote:Thanks for all the videos.

And sorry for critizising, but having only a few hours a day to follow LK topics I miss pictures with comments on this topic, I have no time for watching the numerous videos. Maybe I am the only one with this opinion, so do ignore me when needed :mrgreen:
On 19 Apr 2017, 21:14 ame wrote:no problem Owlie, (potential) criticism ignored. :mrgreen:
however, i have done a humble effort to describe verbally what has happened at the nest, more than shown only in the videos. i am sorry if you feel that these descriptions have not been sufficient to satisfy your need for information.

for making pictures i have not time. in addition to that i have had problems with the Bucket for a fortnight. i'm afraid that i shall not make much more pictures in the future either. instead everyone is naturally free to download my videos and make and post pictures from them.
and of course everyone can and may take pictures by themselves and post them, even you Owlie! :2thumbsup:

so far no-one has been on the nest in this evening. the evening is still very light so someone may still come... :rolleyes:

edit: i have checked my recordings from the evening. no-one came.

- and a reminder: everyone in the forum may do (or not do) whatever pleases them (within the limits of the rules of course).
On 20 Apr 2017, 09:15 Trine wrote:[quoting "Owlie"]/.../ And sorry for critizising, but having only a few hours a day to follow LK topics I miss pictures with comments on this topic, I have no time for watching the numerous videos. /.../ [/EndOfQuote]
To solve this problem, more people is needed to contribute. People make the information varied. And this should be valued.
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Post by ame »

On 20 Apr 2017, 09:33 ame wrote:is there a problem? :puzzled:

anyway, everyone and all contributions are welcome, no-one or nothing is rejected! :thumbs
-within the rules of course and the contributions should also be relevant to the topic. 8-)

the weather is so gorgeous but it's very quiet... :headroll
8:40 the great tit investigated the nest first... then it peeked inside the camera. or perhaps it wanted to check in the mirror that the 'hair-do' was ok. :mrgreen
[youtube VrwTe9Nv-Go /youtube]
On 20 Apr 2017, 10:15 Trine wrote:[quoting "ame"]is there a problem? :puzzled [/EndOfQuote]
Clearly, Owlie had one. I offered my thoughts about it. I am allowed to do so, I think.
Also, my point is that you should not feel sorry about not satisfying everyone´s need for information. No need to take that much responsibility. This is not an one-person forum. 8-)
On 20 Apr 2017, 10:27 Liz01 wrote:Raimis is away

[quoting "Trine"]This is not an one-person forum. 8-)[/EndOfQuote]

here is also Abigyl and I? there are three :mrgreen:
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Post by ame »

On 20 Apr 2017, 10:32 ame wrote:if this discussion of potential problems will continue i shall move the posts to the Discussion-topic. these posts are not relevant in the Observation-topic. i'm not quite certain if they are relevant in the Discussions-topic either because that topic should be discussion about things concerning the J-E WTE-topic, or at least something to do with WTES. actually i really don't know where these posts concerning these matters belong to but it's certainly not here.

10:23 Raimis saw something interesting in the southern sky.... then he flew away directly to the back to the right side of the pond.
[youtube vtq9CxhbgU0 /youtube]

btw: if someone wishes to see more pictures from this nest then one should visit the Dabasdati-forum:
https://dabasdati.lv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3686
people there take and post a lot of pictures but very few videos. they write in Latvian (and sometimes a little English with Latvian).

if you are using Firefox you can download the Google Translator add-on. by using it the language difficulty can be somewhat diminished but unfortunately not completely overcome. Latvian is a fairly 'small' language and GT is not very good with small languages. i also have a feeling that DD people write a lot in dialect(s) or slang language and GT is helpless with that. i usually fail to understand at least half of what they write there... i suppose that if my writings in my everyday Finnish would be given to GT if would not be able to make heads or tails out of it. :mrgreen:
On 20 Apr 2017, 10:38 Trine wrote:[quoting "Liz01"]here is also Abigyl and I? there are three :mrgreen:[/EndOfQuote]
Yeah, that is fine :mrgreen:
(Just in case: my point was that there can not be only one person who is responsible for everything (to observe everything, to answer all questions, etc.), hence no need to take all criticism (or "criticism") personally. Relax.)
i have kept the above posts intact with all their contents. i only made the videos invisible. i also had to disable a few smileys as no more than 5 are allowed in one post.

edit (on Apr 23 morning):
while i was cleaning the kitchen i remembered that we have in the forum a special topic dedicated to Ranting:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=155 :D
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Post by ame »

i think i found a rather nice age comparison for the several spotty girlfriends which Raimis had this spring before the present female came. last year on Feb 2 a Latvian young eagle K013 visited the nest. it was ringed on 29.05.2012 in Kurzeme (W Latvia) like Janis told us:
viewtopic.php?p=439063#p439063

so K013 was to become 4 years old in that summer (2016). it looks so big here that i think it is probably a girl, too. so probably Erna and Meitene are probably 4 years old, too. :D


the present female might be 5 years old as she looks much more mature than these girls.
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Post by Liz01 »

I have problems reaching LK every now and then. Almost the same problem as a few weeks ago. Does anyone else have this problem too?
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Post by ame »

sorry Liz, i didn't notice your problem... :slap:
i had similar problems one day last week, too. i just don't remember which day. :mrgreen:

i suppose it's history now.
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Post by ame »

ame wrote: April 12th, 2021, 3:47 am i think that time has come that i must remind that
the purpose of this topic is to observe and report events that can be either seen or heard on this camera.

recently observations have been blurred and mixed and even partly replaced by numerous and colourful speculations and discussions about what may happen outside the camera view. these scenarios cannot be either verified nor invalidated. their place is not here.

anyone of us may fill the outside world with any events and creatures we like, and we may imagine whatever events we like taking place in the outside world. presenting these scenarios and speculating about them does not, however, belong here. i must ask you to use the Discussion topic for these purposes.
...
Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 10:04 am Good morning!
At 19:19, the swans flew from left to right, then from right to left.

Ame, I'm sorry, but you're the one who instigated this discussion. You had to show your own example and write your fantastic theories that contradict scientific data, and your interpretations in the topic of discussion. Then people would not refute them in this topic. Then our theories would not be laughed at in the neighboring forum.
post copied from here:
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 81#p789381
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Post by Sonchik »

Ajeta wrote: April 11th, 2021, 2:43 pm Mr C seems to fly guard rather than stand guard, just like the original Mr X. (April 2nd). Let's see whether he at least will get enough time to understand what Milda really needs :whistling:
...
This is not surprising. At Mr. C there is no connection to the eggs. But the connection with Milda is already obvious. So he flies after Milda like a tethered man. :laugh: Image
Ajeta wrote: April 11th, 2021, 4:59 pm Exactly. I think eagles do not know any other way of forming relationships, do they? The partner comes with the territory, you do not get to chose it. The strongest male and the strongest female own the territory and as they need eachother to reproduce, they will - least romantically put - get used to one another. I trust that it will work out for Milda, too, though unlike most others here I wish it could have been with Mr X2 since he was just so very noble :mrgreen:
Subjectively and in terms of external qualities, I also like it more. But for Milda, Mr С will be more useful and his skills or instincts are most ready.
Ajeta wrote: April 11th, 2021, 5:26 pm ...
Edit: It also sounds quite near. Would Milda have let a female come so near?
How do you imagine it ideally? Milda sees a female from a few kilometers away, throws her eggs and flies away for a showdown?
The other day we saw at least two fights with a female right above the nest.
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Post by Ajeta »

I would like to reply to this post:
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 16#p789316

The mix between observational posts and those which dock onto those observations seems to become especially chaotic in times like these when the events onscreen become more unusual and raise no end of questions and thoughts. In part, I believe, this is owed to the great interest in these eagles and that people would like to have at least an idea what possibly to expect.

I fully understand that these discussions can become a nuisance to those interested in the chronology of events as they occur on camera. Separating observations from everything that goes beyond them can be one way to bring back order and clarity.

It would make this separation a little fairer, I think, if the expected restrictions were applied to all those things regularly found in observational posts, too. Giving names to eagles that are not surely and convincingly identified or to those that have not even once shown themselves onscreen, describing the potential feelings of Milda, speculating about her motives or moods, speculating about potential attackers, describing ones own feelings or any other personal remarks, witty comments on what happens onscreen, and many other things are - strictly speaking - no "observations and reports that can be either seen or heard on this camera"
either. Nor are the elucidating remarks on things to do with WTE (but not onscreen), the positions of the planets above their nest, or comparisons with other nests/eagles.

All those can mess up the neutrality of the observation and the clarity of the ongoing chronological thread, too. They can lead to more non-observational remarks. Discussions, too, tend to arise from observations that are already in part interpretations. It seems perhaps not altogether fair, if those disagreeing with such an interpreting observation must write their thoughts somewhere else; it may also lead to a rather onesided view on the events in this thread.

Another way to do it may be somehow to limit the posts that discuss things. Be it that everyone gets only one or two such posts per day. Or that the number of letters is limited (as in commentary sections of newspapers) so that they do not become too massive. Or otherwise.

Edit: The planes can be seen - error of mine!
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Post by Sonchik »

Ajeta, I will subscribe to every word! I don't like double standards either. This is not objective. If you need to separate the discussions, why not start with your own posts? That's probably why the previous attempt failed. No one wants to be on the reservation. It's either all or none, I believe.
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Post by Ajeta »

Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 11:55 am How do you imagine it ideally? Milda sees a female from a few kilometers away, throws her eggs and flies away for a showdown?
The other day we saw at least two fights with a female right above the nest.
:wave: Hello Sonchik, nice to see you!
Well, we have seen something that looked like that at least once or twice, Milda leaving her eggs to fly off a bit further and then chase someone in the sky.
Of course we can only speculate whether this someone was a female or male. (I find it quite likely that it was a female, but we cannot be sure.)
To me it seems quite a difference if a female enters just the sky high above the nest or if it has already invaded it so much as to sit nearby and call. If Milda is willing to let that happen and, in order to protect her eggs, to act only in this later case, when the female is really near, why fly off at all at the far sighting of an intruder?
Also: Milda seems very against anybody coming too near the nest. On April 8 it could be seen why: When the fighters come too near, the fighting threatens the eggs. That to me seems part of why she flies off.
There's one advantage to this discussion threat - one can write down one's thoughts without fear of being blamed for disturbing things. I only need to know: When we discuss things here, how can I - when I am in the other thread - know whether you replied to my post here?
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Post by Ajeta »

Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 12:23 pm Ajeta, I will subscribe to every word! I don't like double standards either.
Thank you, Sonchik - I always appreciate your consent! And indeed, it is the double standards that I have difficulty with, too. It seems to me people often don't realize how much speculation is contained in their so-called observational posts. And how much material is added to this thread from time to time which certainly cannot be called "report of what is seen or heard on camera". Mostly material that to my mind enhances the thread enormously. But different people think differently I suppose. But, as you say, everything and everybody should be treated in the same way.
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Post by Sonchik »

Ajeta wrote: April 12th, 2021, 12:28 pm :wave: Hello Sonchik, nice to see you!
Well, we have seen something that looked like that at least once or twice, Milda leaving her eggs to fly off a bit further and then chase someone in the sky.
Of course we can only speculate whether this someone was a female or male. (I find it quite likely that it was a female, but we cannot be sure.)
To me it seems quite a difference if a female enters just the sky high above the nest or if it has already invaded it so much as to sit nearby and call. If Milda is willing to let that happen and, in order to protect her eggs, to act only in this later case, when the female is really near, why fly off at all at the far sighting of an intruder?
Also: Milda seems very against anybody coming to near the nest. On April 8 it could be seen why: When the fighters come to near, the fighting threatens the eggs. That to mee seems part of why she flies off.
The threat to eggs is the main reason for the change in behavior, compared to other seasons. So when Ame compared Milda's current behavior to her behavior in the spring of 2017, I thought it was incorrect. In 2017, Milda fought for the nest. Nothing else bothered her. There's a lot at stake for her right now. She should behave differently.
It's nice here in the discussion threat - one can write down one's thoughts without fear of being blamed for disturbing things. I only need to know: When we discuss things here, how can I - when I am in the other thread - know whether you replied to my post here?
It depends on how you navigate the forum. I subscribe to several topics. I get notifications about messages in these topics. If I am quoted in a topic that I am not subscribed to, I also get notifications. If they just write my nickname without a quote from my message, I may never find out about it or find out by accident.
You quoted me here.
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Post by Ajeta »

Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 12:49 pm In 2017, Milda fought for the nest. Nothing else bothered her. There's a lot at stake for her right now. She should behave differently.
Absolutely - the eggs make all the difference. I have been wondering what those poor males think about that: They come and want to get to know their potential future partner and all the female (i.e. Milda) does is usher them out, and not too kindly. :laugh:
Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 12:49 pm If they just write my nickname without a quote from my message, I may never find out about it or find out by accident.
Thank you. So the quote is the magic button for visibility. :laugh: Also of course, if the discussion thread is now reused, then I can check here, too, whether new posts have been added.
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Post by Sonchik »

From about 13:58, Milda looks up as if Mr. C sits at the top. But at 14:02, Mr. С voice is heard. From afar. The voice is getting closer. Who was sitting at the top then? What does it mean?
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Post by Sonchik »

Ajeta wrote: April 12th, 2021, 1:03 pm ...
Thank you. So the quote is the magic button for visibility. :laugh:
...
Or subscribe to a topic.
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Post by Ajeta »

Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 3:28 pm From about 13:58, Milda looks up as if Mr. C sits at the top. But at 14:02, Mr. С voice is heard. From afar. The voice is getting closer. Who was sitting at the top then? What does it mean?
For a moment you got my hopes up that we'd had a new contender :laugh: But Milda would probably not be so quiet if there was anybody new on the top. So perhaps she's just looking at the sky?
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Post by Ajeta »

rebelde wrote: April 12th, 2021, 6:38 pm Clearly Milda isn't so protective of the eggs any more.
That had occurred to me, too. :nod:
rebelde wrote: April 12th, 2021, 6:38 pm Looks like he's afraid of crushing the eggs with his monstrous crop.
He nearly did! He stepped on one. Clumsy lout :rotf:

I reply to your post here in view of the reinstated rules regarding observations and discussions as our interchange may be closer to discussion than observation. :mrgreen:
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Post by Ajeta »

Sonchik wrote: April 12th, 2021, 4:27 pm Or subscribe to a topic.
Sonchik I've been searching the forum to find out how to do that but couldn't find an answer to that.
Could you give me a hint?
(This is not discussion about eagles, so I write it in small letters just to be sure.)
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