Following Karls' Families

Migration Maps, Tõnn, Greater Spotted Eagle and Black Storks
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Abigyl
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Re: Following Karl's Family

Post by Abigyl » February 28th, 2019, 8:26 pm

Solo wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 1:10 pm

if all is good :mrgreen: https://i.postimg.cc/fyxkJbm4/Anne.jpg
(male WS named Báró in Israel)...I saw that also by another storks
:wave:
I don't know this WS. What is his story? Pic is very small and hard to read.

Dr.Gebril
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Post by Dr.Gebril » February 28th, 2019, 8:49 pm

Greetings from Egypt, this is I Dr. Gebril the last person to touch Maru,
I’ve preformed the necropsy on Maru and it was shot by a typical rifle Caliber that lead to rupturing of the lungs and the air sacs as well as breaking the clavicle bone . I’d like to inform you that Maru had a bad case of Avian TB and she’s been cremated and buried properly.

Sorry all for your loss
Dr.Gebril
Egyptian Veterinarian

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » February 28th, 2019, 8:51 pm

Many thanks, Sova :wave:

TODAY'S SUMMARY FEBRUARY 28

KARL (Karl is probably in South Sudan)
No new data (Last data: 15.11.2018)

MARU (Maru stayed near the Nile in Egypt since 01.11.2018 = 117 days)
Maru perished on February 25th at about 13:00, near the Al Ballanah wastewater ponds.
(Last flight data: 25.02.2019)

PÄIKE
No new data (Last data: 07.10.2018)

KARULA
No new data (Last data: 27.02.2019)
Same area, Nir David in the Beit She'an Valley in Israel
Weather report 27.02 at 10:00
Temp: 13°; at 15:00 12°
Precipitation: 1.1mm; at 15:00 1.2mm
Humidity: 70%
Air pressure: 1008 hPa
Wind gusts: 68 km/h; at 15:00 76 km/h
Wind 100 m - W/SW (49 km/h); at 15:00 NW (48 km/h)
Wind 250 m - W/SW (54 km/h); at 15:00 NW (57 km/h)
Wind 500 m - W/SW (56 km/h); at 15:00 NW (61 km/h)
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Solo
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Post by Solo » February 28th, 2019, 8:58 pm

Dr.Gebril wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:49 pm
...Dr.Gebril Egyptian Veterinarian...
Thank you very much for all
:wave:

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » February 28th, 2019, 8:59 pm

Dr.Gebril wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:49 pm
Greetings from Egypt, this is I Dr. Gebril the last person to touch Maru,
I’ve preformed the necropsy on Maru and it was shot by a typical rifle Caliber that lead to rupturing of the lungs and the air sacs as well as breaking the clavicle bone . I’d like to inform you that Maru had a bad case of Avian TB and she’s been cremated and buried properly.

Sorry all for your loss
Dr.Gebril
Egyptian Veterinarian
Many thanks, Dr. Gebril

We are very grateful for your expertise and for all your good work.
And also for cremating and burying our Maru.

Poor little Maru was shot and she was severely ill, too.
This is very sad news, but it is good that we know what happened to her.
Thank you!
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Solo
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Post by Solo » February 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm

Anne,
I am very sad and very angry...
our little ill Maru...
:cry: :cry: :cry:

http://lrd.spc.int/ext/Disease_Manual_F ... avian.html

:offtobed:

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » February 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm

Solo wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:16 pm
Anne,
I am very sad and very angry...
our little ill Maru...
:cry: :cry: :cry:

http://lrd.spc.int/ext/Disease_Manual_F ... avian.html

:offtobed:
I know, Solo.
It is very sad. Poor Maru.
There is no treatment for avian tuberculosis.
But people could stop shooting at innocent birds.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

kuhankeittäjä
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Post by kuhankeittäjä » February 28th, 2019, 9:33 pm

Like Mimi she had tuberculosis...

That's why she maybe didn't fly so much any more, was not in balace when walking, and - perhaps - was shot because of evident illness, not to let spread it.

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » February 28th, 2019, 9:40 pm

kuhankeittäjä wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:33 pm
Like Mimi she had tuberculosis...
That's why she maybe didn't fly so much any more, was not in balace when walking, and - perhaps - was shot because of evident illness, not to let spread it.
Yes, maybe Maru was shot because she had Avian TB.
It is an infectious and dangerous disease.
And not only for birds.

But wouldn't they take away the dead body and burn it, if she had been killed to prevent further spreading of the disease??

The shooter has released Maru from her suffering. Voluntarily or involuntarily.
Avian TB is a painful disease and it would have killed Maru in the (near) future.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Biker
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Post by Biker » February 28th, 2019, 9:47 pm

-
Caution in dealing with the technique is also required, because of the risk of infection
or has the transmitter been destroyed when shooting off :puzzled:

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Abigyl
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Post by Abigyl » February 28th, 2019, 10:42 pm

Dr.Gebril wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:49 pm
Greetings from Egypt, this is I Dr. Gebril the last person to touch Maru,
Sorry all for your loss
Dr.Gebril
Egyptian Veterinarian
Dear Dr. Gebril,
Many thanks for helping us with this hard task.
Beside the great sadness, I'm sure that all of us are glad to know you and all the great people who helped so much.
Thanks for informing us the circumstances of the sad event.
Good Night :wave:

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Abigyl
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Post by Abigyl » February 28th, 2019, 11:11 pm

Two thaughts... :puzzled:

This TB might be the reason for her to stay there and not flying to the south like Karl.

It can be another situation... Perhaps this man saw that Maru was weak and they were worried that their own domestic chicken will get it too.
Sometimes, people who work in farms or fields in rural areas, are growing their "food" around them. They need to protect it.

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Michi
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Post by Michi » February 28th, 2019, 11:32 pm

Dr.Gebril wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 8:49 pm
Greetings from Egypt, this is I Dr. Gebril the last person to touch Maru,
I’ve preformed the necropsy on Maru and it was shot by a typical rifle Caliber that lead to rupturing of the lungs and the air sacs as well as breaking the clavicle bone . I’d like to inform you that Maru had a bad case of Avian TB and she’s been cremated and buried properly.

Sorry all for your loss
Dr.Gebril
Egyptian Veterinarian
Thank you so much, Dr. Gebril, for performing a necropsy on our special Black Stork Maru. This is more than we had expected.
The diagnosis is as surprising as it is sad, but we are all relieved to now have certainty about Maru's cause of death.
We are deeply grateful to you, also for the cremation and the burying of Maru.

Best wishes from Germany!

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Post by Michi » February 28th, 2019, 11:55 pm

Abigyl wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 11:11 pm
Two thaughts... :puzzled:

This TB might be the reason for her to stay there and not flying to the south like Karl.

It can be another situation... Perhaps this man saw that Maru was weak and they were worried that their own domestic chicken will get it too.
Sometimes, people who work in farms or fields in rural areas, are growing their "food" around them. They need to protect it.
I agree in both points, Abigyl. Both reasons seem possible.
But, to your first thaught: Then Maru must have been so ill already after a few weeks in Egypt that she didn't want to fly on. On the other hand, we don't know where she got the TB from, from which country.

My thaught is also, that someone saw the weakness of Maru and gave her the mercy shot.
Dr. Gebril wrote that the Avian TB was bad. Maru must have suffered. In that case, I'm thankful Maru is released from pain.

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » March 1st, 2019, 12:50 am

Michi wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 11:55 pm
I agree in both points, Abigyl. Both reasons seem possible.
But, to your first thaught: Then Maru must have been so ill already after a few weeks in Egypt that she didn't want to fly on. On the other hand, we don't know where she got the TB from, from which country.

My thaught is also, that someone saw the weakness of Maru and gave her the mercy shot.
Dr. Gebril wrote that the Avian TB was bad. Maru must have suffered. In that case, I'm thankful Maru is released from pain.
I agree, Michi
In the best possible scenario, a hunter (or a farmer, or someone else) observed a visibly ill Maru, and decided to shoot her down to stop the suffering. On the day she died, she has been walking around the oxidation ponds for many hours. kuhankeittäjä wrote that her body was out of balance. Someone must have seen this.

I read that the incubation period is several weeks to months. Maru was in the Adindan area for nearly 4 months. Maybe she was infected in Egypt. But that's not sure. Symptoms do not usually develop until late in the infection. I don't know if wastewater pools are contaminated with avian TB, but it wouldn't surprise me. Infection results from ingestion of material (or water) contaminated with faeces of infected birds or other animals. The faeces of infected birds can contain very large numbers of tubercle bacilli. (See Solo's link: http://lrd.spc.int/ext/Disease_Manual_F ... _avian.html) Rodents can spread the disease.

http://www.poultryhub.org/health/diseas ... erculosis/
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
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asteria
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Post by asteria » March 1st, 2019, 8:30 am

Anne7 wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:24 pm
I know, Solo.
It is very sad. Poor Maru.
There is no treatment for avian tuberculosis.
But people could stop shooting at innocent birds.
There still is treatment but it is very hard and takes much time. Of course nobody would treat a wild bird in nature.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3135220/

We knew the fate of Maru, but perhaps she was not the only one, that is the worst thing. Maru could get poisoned through water or food and perhaps other birds in that area must be ill and killed too. Black storks avoid people and hide from them but ill birds are weak and can't fly away fast. :cry: :cry: :cry:

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sova
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Post by sova » March 1st, 2019, 9:02 am

01. March

good morning to all :hi:

Dr. Gebril, thank you very much for your effort. Thank you also that they have us.

I see some problems since we know what our poor Maru had;
1. That somebody shot Maru because she was ill (the person saw it), I do not think so. Why did he leave the Maru lying on the field.
But we can talk about bird shooting for a long time, it happened before * our front doors * too.
2. The Ereger is pretty resistant! Dangerous for humans (above all, people weakened) and animal.
*** Infection occurs predominantly orally via food, water and contaminated soil, where the pathogen remains infectious for more than 1 year (Selbitz 2007). *** "
https://www.vetpharm.uzh.ch/WIR/BAKT2100/0100__F.htm
https://www.tierklinik.de/medizin/infek ... uberkulose
3. The Maru was certainly not the only bird that has gone to the water basin. How many are still infected? (Asteria :nod: )
I just did not understand how long the incubation period is?
I leave several months, then again 3 weeks ???



Here, if anyone cares about tuberculosis in general
https://www.svmtra.ch/files/Dokumente/A ... _warnt.pdf

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Post by sova » March 1st, 2019, 9:08 am

Asteria, very good article :2thumbsup:

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Post by Biker » March 1st, 2019, 11:35 am

as well, even without Tuberculosis (AVIAN), Maru can't have been healthy.

she has spend a big part of her short life in a region, by which the Nile river is fed with that much chemie , that even the air smells chemical.
the Nile supplies the effortly, expensive purified drink water for almost all humans there.
with the unpurified water from a widely branched ditch system fed by the Nile, they have to water their fields.all ponds and ditches are , full of ill, fishes, susceptible to parasites,.
yes, i know, this situation as there, and the problrms resulting exists everywhere all over the world.
besides this, there it is not requested, forbidden to comment on it, to complain it, etc. because of the veneration of this river.

link to a current report about people living surround and with the Nile and their health, in german.
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/abwaesse ... _id=402029

because of the risk for infection also by contaminated equipment and clothing etc, my interest applies now the transmitter and the dealing with.

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » March 1st, 2019, 11:51 am

Good morning, everyone. :hi:

Sova :wave:
We only know for sure that Maru was very ill and that she was shot.

We do not know the intentions of the shooter.
Maybe it was out of pity, maybe it was for "fun".
All scenarios are speculation.

Maru was seriously ill. Dr. Gebril said it was a bad case of avian TB.
Our little Maru was weak and badly ill. She didn't fly anymore.
Whatever the intention of the shooter was, it is a relief that it shortened Maru's suffering.

Regarding the incubation period - some sources say "at least 3 weeks", others say "several weeks to months", yet others just say "a long time". I suspect that it depends on the age, the initial state of health and the immune system of the animal.
We do not know when and where Maru was infected.

I feel very sorry for Maru.

Here is another scientific paper about the disease:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/vmi/2011/712369/

Biker :wave:
Thank you.
I hope that everyone who touched Maru's body and the transmitter has taken proper precautions.


Here is Karula's morning tracker map:

TRACKER MAP
Karula_March01_morning
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uegXe ... sp=sharing

I will be away until evening.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

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