Following Karls' Families

[kuhankeittäjä]

<snip>
If this is the case, then there is not much that would have helped Aru...

Yes, Aru should have resqued before a viesel (or so) crushed its neck in the forest. Karl II should have brought to the hospital "bed" to stand by and regurgitate food. This is, of course, impossible and still there's no guarantee of positive outcome. Some die, some cannot stand any more, some heal.

[Ari19]

Yes, Aru should have resqued before a viesel (or so) crushed its neck in the forest. Karl II should have brought to the hospital "bed" to stand by and regurgitate food. This is, of course, impossible and still there's no guarantee of positive outcome. Some die, some cannot stand any more, some heal.

Thank you for the reply and valuable explanation, kuhankeittäjä!

This reminds me on a disease that occurs on both humans and birds: encephalomyelitis (enkefaliitti in Finnish). Some of its symptoms can be interpreted from Aru's telemetry. Another dignostic criteria is virus test from the body. Let see whether it is made, and what will be the outcome.

http://lrd.spc.int/ext/Disease_Manual_F ... litis.html

I read about this disease and it is considered to be untreatable. Only a vaccine can prevent it.
If Aru was sick with encephalomyelitis then finding him earlier would not have helped.
He would still died of this disease, unfortunately.

And plain hunger and exhaustion do not usually cause birds to turn over on their backs.

Again thank you for spending time answering our questions!

[asteria]

Thank you for the reply and valuable explanation, kuhankeittäjä!



I read about this disease and it is considered to be untreatable. Only a vaccine can prevent it.
If Aru was sick with encephalomyelitis then finding him earlier would not have helped.
He would still died of this disease, unfortunately.

And plain hunger and exhaustion do not usually cause birds to turn over on their backs.

Again thank you for spending time answering our questions!

Pseudopestis avium also gives the symtoms of encephalitis and it is the disease very dangrerous for pigeons, parrots and other birds. Aru could get it. Such birds are rolling around, can't move normally, can't take a seed, many of them are killed by cars. Some birds are treated from it themselves, but as a rule even medical treatment doesn't help. I know a woman, who treated a street pigeon from Pseudopestis avium, she made a video, she managed to treat her patient, but it is not real for a wild bird. Although it is not known, whether Aru had such a virus.

[Ari19]

Pseudopestis avium also gives the symtoms of encephalitis and it is the disease very dangrerous for pigeons, parrots and other birds. Aru could get it. Such birds are rolling around, can't move normally, can't take a seed, many of them are killed by cars. Some birds are treated from it themselves, but as a rule even medical treatment doesn't help. I know a woman, who treated a street pigeon from Pseudopestis avium, she made a video, but it is not real for a wild bird. But it is not known, whether Aru had such a virus.

Many diseases exist. If Aru had something like this then there is not much that could be done, even if he were taken to the vets a month ago.

[Solo]

.
OMG pls, already enough speculation (I believe that my opinion will not be perceived as an effort to restrict freedom of speech/freedom of expression)

we may have maybe also the autopsy results (as far as I know, except for Erika, there is no veterinarian and except Urmas no one is an ornithologist here)

[sova]

Oru has new data

[Solo]

Oru has new data

Distance: 4055 km (+ 1 km), Last data: 12.10.2019


wider view on the area where is our Oru

https://goo.gl/maps/8NNBLxDduS8VYodE8

[Abigyl]

Good Morning!

I saw earlier this twist in Oru's way and "didn't like" it.
When he is so close to cross he choosed to go north?

Hope it's only for breakfast...

[asteria]

Many diseases exist. If Aru had something like this then there is not much that could be done, even if he were taken to the vets a month ago.

Hope vets took Aru's bloodsamples and can say whether it was a case. Here is the information about this disease(in Russian though), it occures very often, I saw such birds many times.

https://rodentovet.ru/statty/bolezn-nyu ... its-obzor/

OMG pls, already enough speculation (I believe that my opinion will not be perceived as an effort to restrict freedom of speech/freedom of expression)

we may have maybe also the autopsy results (as far as I know, except for Erika, there is no veterinarian and except Urmas no one is an ornithologist here)

No speculation. If vets took bloodsamples, they'll get the exact answer. It is a serious matter because such a disease is dangerous for all the birds, including hens and ducks, also country people from that region may have pigeons, so it is important to learn if Aru had it.

[Liz01]

And plain hunger and exhaustion do not usually cause birds to turn over on their backs.

Birds do it, when they die. I saw some birds dying on my balcony. (and many birds in the wild) The process was interrupted when Aru was picked up.

The fact is that a lot of birds are starving on the way to the south!
I never thought that you could make a diagnosis when looking at the data from the transmitter.

If I remember correctly is it one of the main reasons. I am always happy if a juvenile stays in one place for a long time. I hope they find enough food then. Juveniles that fly to the south very quickly have the risk of starving or dying of exhaustion.

[Solo]

Birds do it, when they die. I saw some birds dying on my balcony. (and many birds in the wild) The process was interrupted when Aru was picked up. ...

Liz, yes, I think you're right (also with other)

that was writen by Alexandre Vintchevski (who was contacted by Urmas) - FB Birds of Belarus
(now only ENG - GT translation, I corrected only the word eyelid): "From the Pinsk veterinary service they reported that they did not find any wounds or injuries on the stork. For some reason, the bird sat in the middle of the forest. Probably was exhausted and could no longer fly on. When the specialists of the Ministry of Natural Resources found her, bird lay on her back upside down and did not move. That he was alive he noticed only by the movement of the eyelid".)

info on this page (https://ptushki.org/news/680735.html?fb ... 3bUZZ1v8NU) about autopsy isn't official info
injury to the cervical vertebra after being bitten by a small predator is not listed as the cause of his death (this could have happened even at the stage of Arus dying)

we should really wait for the official publication of the autopsy results (my opinion)

[Biker]

They did not find any wounds or injuries on the stork.
confirms what the Hungarian doctor remete1946 wrote here several times: the wing injury - (can) heal(s).

Liz01 wrote: ↑ The dying process was interrupted.. October 12th, 2019, 1:45 pm

that happens to us humans countless times all over the world every day (different/off topic, I know)

yes, but finding the stork later with broken bone and perhaps miss the chance to help him is also not the optimal.

[Anne7]

OMG pls, already enough speculation (I believe that my opinion will not be perceived as an effort to restrict freedom of speech/freedom of expression)
we may have maybe also the autopsy results (as far as I know, except for Erika, there is no veterinarian and except Urmas no one is an ornithologist here)

Liz, yes, I think you're right (also with other)

that was writen by Alexandre Vintchevski (who was contacted by Urmas) - FB Birds of Belarus
(now only ENG - GT translation, I corrected only the word eyelid): "From the Pinsk veterinary service they reported that they did not find any wounds or injuries on the stork. For some reason, the bird sat in the middle of the forest. Probably was exhausted and could no longer fly on. When the specialists of the Ministry of Natural Resources found her, bird lay on her back upside down and did not move. That he was alive he noticed only by the movement of the eyelid".)

info on this page (https://ptushki.org/news/680735.html?fb ... 3bUZZ1v8NU) about autopsy isn't official info
injury to the cervical vertebra after being bitten by a small predator is not listed as the cause of his death (this could have happened even at the stage of Arus dying)

we should really wait for the official publication of the autopsy results (my opinion)

Hello, everyone!

So the statements/info on FB and other social media are less speculative than what some people are considering here as a possible cause of death? *

I do not know... but the information received in this way was often rather contradictory and confusing.
A broken wing - No, not a broken wing
An injured wing - No, not an injured wing
No injuries - Yes, injuries (bites)
Aru died as a result of a damaged cervical vertebra - Aru died as a result of exhaustion/starvation
The attack of a small predator caused the (paralyzing?) neck injury - The neck injury was inflicted when Aru was already dying

The only thing we know for sure is that since 06.10 Aru was lying on her back (X, Y, Z graph) and was still alive (a - unlikely constant! - high temperature). Furthermore, very slight movements were visible on the X, Y and Z graph.
We know this through the data that the device sent. Kuhankeittäjä has correctly analyzed and correctly interpreted these data! He knew that Aru was upside down and nearly motionless, before she was found that way.

These data were so unlikely though (and confusing!) that they seemed faulty. OrniTrack (tracker map) reported: "Possible anomaly accelerometer value! Invalid device position."

I agree: let's wait until Urmas (possibly) reports the official autopsy report.

* Edit: Or could it be that some speculations are accepted (and approved!) and other speculations rejected (and discouraged)? Who decides on that? And on what criteria?

[juta]

KARULA


Tracker map 11-10 - 12.10.2019

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1K-55H ... sp=sharing

[Anne7]

color=#FF00BF]KARULA[/color]
Tracker map 11-10 - 12.10.2019
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1K-55H ... sp=sharing

Thanks, Juta

Karula is still at Lake Eber. 25 days.
Tracker map says that the flown distance is 1.04 km.
At 15:29:01 (UTC+3), the battery level is 63% (3928 mV).

[Liz01]

Anne7, the social media helped to find Mare (and the transmitter) ? They helped find Aru?
By speculation I mean that we suddenly talk about diseases like encephalitis. I do not think the transmitter can show it.

[asteria]

Anne7, the social media helped to find Mare (and the transmitter) ? They helped find Aru?
By speculation I mean that we suddenly talk about diseases like encephalitis. I do not think the transmitter can show it.

Not suddenly. Perhaps you missed that message from kuhankeittäjä
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=945&p=696868#p696868

[Anne7]

Anne7, the social media helped to find Mare (and the transmitter) ? They helped find Aru?

Liz

I know! I am very grateful to the people who offered their help.
I have repeatedly thanked all those very kind and helping people.

Please do not let any misunderstanding arise about that!

It wasn't about that.
I wanted to say (and we all have seen) that, especially in such hectic moments, 'information' can be incomplete, inaccurate, unclear or contradictory.
Perhaps also because of possible translation problems.

I know you surely mean Maru, not Mare.

By speculation I mean that we suddenly talk about diseases like encephalitis. I do not think the transmitter can show it.

It is speculation, yes, like there have been other speculations. Or a (possible) theory without evidence.

I also think that we must clearly distinguish between an opinion (a possible explanation) and real information.

Liz, why do you suddenly call me Anne7, and no longer Anne, when you talk to me?

[remete1946]

They did not find any wounds or injuries on the stork.
confirms what the Hungarian doctor remete1946 wrote here several times: the wing injury - (can) heal(s).
that happens to us humans countless times all over the world every day (different/off topic, I know)
yes, but finding the stork later with broken bone and perhaps miss the chance to help him is also not the optimal.

Yes Biker!
In her teenage years, when she was self-sufficient, she returned to a nest and struck a twig, disappeared from the field of view of the webcam, and appeared. An FB lady questioned me, brought to LK what I saw and what I commented on; hematoma and heals.
Urmas must have checked the transmitter's data to see where Aru is going, eating, etc., and of course he was watching the webcam.
(I do not know, we do not know each other, but I do know Him because his activities have betrayed almost everything.)

Here's a video that takes his time and stops at important cubes to see that the injury is healing under his left armpit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5XsXdV ... 8MoDIU2rIE
Not a fairy tale, a reality. One day he decided to leave.

Posted on:
http://birdmap.5dvision.ee/EN?fbclid=Iw ... 6kT9HSpVhM
Clicking on Aru's name will bring up a tab on the left, here's how:

"Aru
Juvenile Black Stork from webcam nest. Started its first migration in ??.??.2019, after ?? days as second sibling in nest. Transmitter installed in 12.07.2019. Aru did get some slight injury probably doing flight exercises in the woods, but that did not affect on flight abilities. All food brought by male was eaten by Aru after Oru left for migration and that was a bit too much for one juvenile Black Stork. But enough food enables better start for migration probably."

For what reason, he never turned back to an area of ​​water close to the forest.
It is not uncommon for white storks and blacks to camp for long periods in a well-nourished area, so it was not unusual for a migration map only.
I was optimistic and reassured me that he was in the woods during the day - as the black stork was hiding - and that he was feeding in the evening.
When I got the news - I don't remember at all - that my "patient" was in trouble again, I went to FB's Belurussian group.

Post-launch:
"Dear friends! We need your help in the area of ​​Brest region, Pinsk district d. Zholkino and spring, missing the black stork, flying south, has a transmitter on its back. young bird, year of birth, tax installed by ornithologists Estonia who saw or found, please inform Estonian ornithology."
https://www.facebook.com/groups/6942052 ... 784700155/

and watched LK analyzing the encoder data.
I felt the need to help because there was trouble.
He gives twice, who gives quickly, says the Hungarian proverb.
Understandably, great people did not sit in the armchair, act.
I was not the only one asking for help, but they probably got the most useful information from me. I write this without any bias.

"October 9, the facebook group "Birds of Belarus", the message with a request to find and rescue Pinsk district young black stork, which Estonian researchers have identified a tax. The signs show that the stork does not move for a long time, October 6th and then he was either killed or in need of help."

Source: https://ptushki.org/news/680735.html?
fbclid=IwAR0_y2RiTmHFaOElq872arFddOzFvEJqHxW150LgwVJgk8Bha9Yg-Q_0iAA
If you are wondering what they are writing for, ask the GT or another helper to translate the text from Belorussian into their native language.

The finders found a bird that began to agonize - not having the power to fight a rodent - that could only blink.
Despite careful handling, the bird on the verge of being - not being.

Chose not to be.

The detailed autopsy report is unknown.
We do not know what condition he was compared to the average age bird? Was there any food residue in your bunk, what was found in your gut?
A drastic drop in blood glucose levels is incompatible with life. Biochemical processes that are difficult to reverse are initiated.
If there is a miracle, and yet, the mystery of what has been caused to the vital organs remains.
I suspect he is starving.
If you were a lone wanderer, then unfortunately, your situation was even more difficult.

[(Let's assume this happened and they didn't shoot a bird unlucky because of their beacon.)]

Aru rest in peace!
Speak for You Mozart Requiem!

[asteria]

It is hard to believe, that it was possible to starve it the region, full of water and frogs. Storks also eat snails and earthworms. It is not a desert.