Black Stork Nest in Karula, 2021

[Swenja]

18:51 beauty Karl II



slumbering Karl II

[Anne7]

We do not know the answer, both options are possible. Maybe Urmas would know that.
Anne7, if I may, I would quote you using your "motto", thank you!

“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg

Yes, OK, probably Urmas knows more about it.

I have thought a lot about this subject. And it is still unclear to me.

The weight of eggs
If eggs are not fertilised, there are two possible scenarios:
1. Either they completely dry out inside and therefore weigh much less. This happens when no bacteria have penetrated into the egg and the inside remains sterile.
(On egg shells is a kind of wax layer that protects the eggs against penetrating bacteria).
2. Either, if the eggshell is (even slightly) damaged or if the wax layer is damaged, bacteria will (or may) penetrate the egg and it will start to rot. A rotting egg can explode with a loud bang (and smell awful). (Or, if the crack is large, the contents may spill out).
Can birds feel if an egg weighs (much) less and therefore contains no life?

The temperature of eggs
A developing embryo starts to produce its own heat at a certain moment, because the embryo starts having its own metabolism.
Can birds feel the difference in temperature between an egg that contains a living embryo and an egg that contains a dead embryo (or an unfertilised egg)?

We have observed that BS throw unhatched eggs overboard or bury them in the nesting material...

On the other hand, it is also known that one can put fake eggs under some breeding bird species (e.g. pigeons). If those fake eggs have the right shape, colour and weight, the birds will 'incubate' those eggs. This does not support the proposition that birds can judge very well what is happening inside their eggs.

[Heloise]

18:51 beauty Karl II
https://up.picr.de/41148368ty.jpg

Swenja, thanks for the beautiful photo of the beautiful Karl II!
It's so strange: if you hadn't written and we didn't know it, this beauty could have been Kaia too.
They are equally beautiful!

https://i.postimg.cc/0NVVRH0v/Screensho ... u-Tube.jpg

[Heloise]

Anne7, many thanks!
You always share useful information

There is a lot we don't know...

When I think of eggs, I still remember Urmas, who rescued BS eggs last year and replaced them.
And then it seemed to me that Karl II suspected something!

[Swenja]

Swenja, thanks for the beautiful photo of the beautiful Karl II!
It's so strange: if you hadn't written and we didn't know it, this beauty could have been Kaia too.
They are equally beautiful!

No, Karl II has a longer beak and a different hairstyle than Kaia.
Yes, they are both beautiful!

[Heloise]

No, Karl II has a longer beak and a different hairstyle than Kaia.

You are definitely right!
You have taken so many photos of Karl II, you know his peculiarities!

[Swenja]

Thank you @Anne7 for the summary about eggs.

I think not every bird will accept an egg imitation? Perhaps not every bird touches its laid eggs in this way?
In addition to temperature and weight, I would also think of "pulsing" as the embryo develops. He goes through different phases.
We have also seen in other nests that probably unfertilized eggs are destroyed and removed and that shortly after they have been deposited in the nest. (Tiina, when Tiit did not come back)

I'm afraid we still have to find explanations.

edit: I also noticed that Kaia moves the eggs more in a circle and not as actively. Karl II rolls the eggs really actively and sometimes he rolls them around completely. They both touch the eggs in this context.

[Swenja]

20:41 Karl II rolls the eggs.

[Heloise]

20:41 I also noticed that Karl was rolling eggs carefully



Karl II the Beautiful



The nest must be perfect!

[Heloise]

Everything is fine.



No, not everything is fine yet!



It is still necessary to clean and aerate the feathers. at the same time, Karl II seems to be digging a nest bowl right next to his body.

[Anne7]

Thank you @Anne7 for the summary about eggs.

... In addition to temperature and weight, I would also think of "pulsing" as the embryo develops. He goes through different phases.
We have also seen in other nests that probably unfertilized eggs are destroyed and removed and that shortly after they have been deposited in the nest. (Tiina, when Tiit did not come back)

I'm afraid we still have to find explanations.

Thank you, Swenja. You are a great observer.

You are absolutely right, at some point in the development of an embryo one will definitely sense or hear pulsations or vibrations (heartbeat or even blood circulation), provided that one has extremely accurate hearing or very sensitive tactile senses.

The major problem in demonstrating (or explaining) what is really happening is that it is virtually impossible to determine what birds perceive and think (and therefore what they do consciously).

They kind of live in a different reality. Their senses are different, their brains are different.

My personal opinion is that we (humans in general) greatly underestimate the intelligence of animals in general, and birds in particular. People like to talk about “instinctive behaviour”, as if animals are programmed robots, and as if they are not able to observe and think, and then make a decision based on what they observe and think...

[Heloise]

Karl II is on night watch. He he could fall asleep...
... if there was no need to do a little neck exercises...





All is well, Karl II can fall asleep.

[Heloise]

Night is coming soon. Sleep well, our beloved Karl II and all black stork friends in Karula forest!





Can't sleep yet! Some danger!



Karl II gets up, he seems to be taking a defensive position. A warning voice was heard from Karl's beak!

[Anne7]

There is a lot we don't know...

When I think of eggs, I still remember Urmas, who rescued BS eggs last year and replaced them.
And then it seemed to me that Karl II suspected something!

I agree, Heloise.
There’s so much we don’t know. And the funny thing is that the more we know, the more new questions arise.
So it is as if we know less and less.

Karl II wasn’t fooled by the hard boiled duck eggs. Clever bird!

Sleep well, everyone!
Many thanks for all wonderful pictures, videos and reports!

Edit: I wonder what danger Karl II observed at 21:40.

[Heloise]

However, there seems to be no danger...



Karl II rolls eggs with his feet (as I have noticed before!) with the skill of a footballer
And covers them.



And it's time to say good night to everyone!



Anne7, Swenja, thank you and sweet dreams!

[Swenja]

21:40:45 a bird comes flying out of the forest towards the nest. No, two birds.



0:19 - 0:23

[Anne7]

21:40 a bird comes flying out of the forest towards the nest. No, two birds.

Well spotted, Swenja!
I didn’t see them.

[Heloise]

Many thanks for the video!


Good night!

[Swenja]

I would consider the larger bird for an owl, but it can't be seen in the light and the distance.
Thank you @Heloise for your attention! and Anne7





Times of absence today:
Karl II was in the nest overnight.
Kaia came at 07:48.

08:43 Karl II away
14:42 - 14:52 both are in the nest.
14:52 Karl II away
18:14 Kaia away

Karl II is in the nest overnight.

[Heloise]

I had an idea that maybe those owls (?) were the young birds that jumped so funny in Karl's nest last spring