Estonian Black Storks Migration 2022-2023 from Birdmap

[juta]

Hello, Sova!

I think that other black storks are not in such danger as our Julge just now. Julge behaves as nobody before, stays close to people and doesn´t afraid of them. People in that place have seen him/her. I am absolutely sure that they are nice people and never would harm Julge intentionally but things may happen by chance.

[Susanne]

Now, I don't want to stir up the discussion, just a little sideways glance at another bird project and how gps tracking and map will be handled. I also occasionally follow the bearded vulture release in the Bavarian Alps. Their policy is: when the vultures will have left the area of their release, a gps tracking map will be available, data will be sent/shown with a delay of two days in order to protect the birds, respectively their current location. -

[Biker]

Hello!

I just read most of what is here about the unfortunate development.
My first thought on this:
block the info from Julge's route for us.
Must be enough if win few people (eg Urmas )
know about it.

Please take her route out of birdmap (for now)


Edit
An occasional report on how Julge is doing is enough for me.
This is a special situation that requires a special regulation.

[Lusciniole]

bird's lovers!
It is a difficult and very interesting discussion because it opposes two assumptions: to protect it is better to remain discreet and only give information to a small circle of people OR it is better to educate as many people as possible and share our passions. Maybe it has to adapt to each situation. Do you remember that 2 or 3 years ago an Estonian osprey equipped with a transmitter was captured in Africa (perhaps on the edge of Chad?) And that the only fact that it was equipped with a the transmitter and that the hunters learn that he was being followed and where he came from had awake their admiration. They had released him with respect.
I can say what it did to me to see on the map that Julge crosses places that I know in Belgium and France and that she stops 20 km away: enthusiasm and admiration! Although I have seen other black storks in recent days, this one carries their story to all and my hopes that they have a safe trip, that they come back next year and that our lives will be filled with wonder!

[ingra]

Greetings! I think that Julge is not afraid of people, because she was fed in the nest by a human. And maybe Julge feels safer near settlements, because perhaps she saw the attack of a raccoon dog on the sibling. I also enjoy to follow her flight. And if Julge keeps that behavior to stay close to settlements, people will see and photograph her anyway, so it doesn't matter if the route is published or not.
I don't know if Julge is she or he :)

[visit]

Hello,

it opposes two assumptions: to protect it is better to remain discreet and only give information to a small circle of people OR it is better to educate as many people as possible and share our passions.

Not only these two possibilities BUT ALSO a third possibility: to make a compromise:
educate as many people as possible inclusive the information data of the journey – BUT JUST a little time-displaced.

visit

[Jo UK]

Many good points have been raised in this discussion. Should we publish ALL the information that is available to us? Or should we stop publishing tracker maps completely? Somewhere between those two positions lies wisdom.
At present our choice is to continue to provide tracker maps as we have been doing. Maybe we shall restrict data even more.
What is worth remembering in all of this is that Black Storks are so very seriously endangered so any small effort for their protection is something that we should, and will do. I really plead with other forum members to share that same attitude.
Lusciniole's excellent point about an osprey is one illustration - but ospreys are not an endangered species. Their population is increasing so their conservation status is of least concern
In the past, other birds have been "arrested" because they wore tracking devices. All birds face so many risks to their lives because of human activity. Please help us to reduce, by a small amount, these risks from bird tourism, sport hunting or plain ignorance.

[Lusciniole]

To Jo UK: Its true for ospreys but, about twenty years old, i took part in monitoring their nests and made informations because, in France, there were less than 5 pairs. Our efforts have paid off. Many people follow their nest life through cameras and have learned to admire them. The fishermen no longer dare to kill them.

Has anyone got in touch with these photographers on FB to find out their intentions and ask them to be careful?

[Jo UK]

Has anyone got in touch with these photographers on FB to find out their intentions and ask them to be careful?

Lusciniole, I do hope your question receives a reply.

Wonderful news about ospreys, fishermen, etc! Good work

[Liz01]

As far as I know, wild animals only approach humans when they are hungry. Really very hungry! We could see it recently. A Latvian juvenile walked near the people. He would be fed and released. He was malnourished. I'm sure Julge can't find any food!
Not every brook or river offers the opportunity to fish in it. Black Storks need shallow areas

post by Hellem!
...This young bird was quite starving, weighing 2.56 kg.He went to Madis Leivits for fattening ....
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 82#p830482

I saw many winters ... harsh winters when there was no more food to be found for wildlife. then the animals come to humans. It doesn't mean that they are without fear, it just means that hunger is worse than fear

BTW: The area where Julge is located is intensively cultivated. Fields are cultivated up to the river. That means the river is definitely not rich in food! This means that the river is fully polluted with agricultural fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides and fungicides. I looked at this a few days ago and thought what a horrible area. But I didn't write it.

[Liz01]

Greetings! I think that Julge is not afraid of people, because she was fed in the nest by a human.

ingra
the fish was left in the nest. And the nightly feeding .. Julge couldn't know who was bringing the food. Other Black Storks were also "fed" during the night. They did not fly near people. I think the explanation is as simple as I wrote above. Julge is starving.

[balistar]

...... I think the explanation is as simple as I wrote above. Julge is starving.

Liz , i absolutely agree with you on this point. It's my impression too. I tried to cautiously express my concern about this in my humble posts or to stimulate thought (e.g. "A little northwest of Heutrégiville is a small lake, maybe JULGE was fishing there today ?"), but you clearly state it.


EDIT:
This also applies to my post on concerns about the "birdwatching tourism" that may arise. We don't even believe what is being carried wherever by today's media opportunities. Copyrights violations (dissemination and possible misuse of information) happen every day and in many cases cannot be traced.

EDIT 2:
So i asked in a previous post "is that in the sense of the inventor ?"
If i have the choice of receiving information only at the risk of endangering the birds from abuse, then for the sake of the safety of the Black Stork - as here in the special case of JULGE - i prefer not to receive information and choose "silence" - or, as already has been suggested, information about the whereabouts of a stopover only after the bird has left the area.

[Liz01]

I left a message on FB that they shouldn't show Julge's exact location.

[Liz01]

...

balistar I absolutely don't like that thought. But there is no other explanation.

[Anne7]

Hello everyone

…. I think the explanation is as simple as I wrote above. Julge is starving.

Hello, Liz
I have exactly the same worries.
It’s quite possible that Julge is starving.

As I already wrote yesterday:
“I am getting worried about Julge
Is he/she not finding something to eat?
Are there not enough suitable (or accessible) places to fish nearby?
I don't see Julge looking for food on the Suippe, nor at any other water body.”

Edit:
Unless there is something else going on with Julge… some kind of bizarre ‘failure’ in her/his natural instincts.
Right from the start of her/his migration, s/he has been doing very strange things and constantly ends up in dangerous situations and places ...

[Solo]

As far as I know, wild animals only approach humans when they are hungry. Really very hungry! ...
BTW: The area where Julge is located is intensively cultivated. Fields are cultivated up to the river. That means the river is definitely not rich in food! This means that the river is fully polluted with agricultural fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides and fungicides. I looked at this a few days ago and thought what a horrible area. But I didn't write it.

Liz, I'm glad we're back to basics

when he was in Belgium, we got (on Sep 11) a message from Maxime Séleck, Univeristy of Liege @ Gembloux partenering in the Life in Quarries project
Following a request from a colleague in Belgium and Urmas, I'm happy to share some good news from Belgium from JULGE. We've the chance to have within the quarry personnel some reactive employees that have been kind enough to go get and share a picture + video of Julge feeding in a field. I'd reassure you saying that the pond were it remained for two days prior to that is well furnished in fishes + diversity of food resources. He might have gotten lucky!!" (I know, black storks do not hunt in deep water)
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 59#p829859

and info by Luscione:
... I study the map and I realize that Julge has also gone further east to "Saint Clément à Arnes". The Arnes is a small stream where she can easily look for food. Around the supermarket, there is also a small stream that I saw earlier + the private pond that I mentioned + the vegetated settling ponds of the wastewater treatment plant. It has rained a lot in recent days and the undergrowth is wet, the paths full of puddles ...
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 07#p830607

if Julge does not find food even in the fields and grasslands, why does Julge not fly away?
Urmas: ... here is one day travel to the most famous migration stop over area in France for Black Storks ...

if Julge is unable to find and catch food (for what reason?), then Julge's future is very questionable
Urmas: How the juveniles learn to fish? Easy! If they do not fish, then they do not spread their genes. Only those can get chicks, who have instinct to fish in suitable places. First fishing could happen far away form home nest, but also near the nest. More possibilities and more time to find right places and practice fishing have those who's body condition is better. Their batteries are more charged and stand for longer (before additional food). ...

[Liz01]

...if Julge does not find food even in the fields and grasslands, why does Julge not fly away?

Solo,

There is a study. Two field birds chicks have been placed in different areas. One area was normal, the other area was used extensively by agriculture.
In the intensively used field, the chick had to run back and forth a lot to find food. It lost significant weight. We see that Julge flies back and forth a lot. And we see that she is looking for fodder where fertilizer has not been applied. So where people live. That's what we have in every city! Berlin is a good example. Great biodiversity in the city. Outside everything is dead! Intensive agriculture. And that's exactly what I see in this place where Julge is. Why doesn't Julge fly away? She'll find some insects.

[Liz01]

...I don't see Julge looking for food on the Suippe, nor at any other water body.”

Anne, thank you!
your observation confirms my fears. He / she cannot find fish. And fish would be important. He's /she's probably not even trying to get fish. I have read that this river is only 1.8% natural. It's nothing!
And I've read that Black Stork Juvenile mainly prefer the food that they were mainly fed with. In this case, it's fish!

I saw pictures of Maris S with a young black stork in the fields. He said the food found there is insufficient to build Fat reserves.
It is probably normal for them to search in fields as well. but...

[Solo]

... Why doesn't Julge fly away? She'll find some insects.

Liz, thx

"a bird simply must adapt to the situation or starve ..." (Urmas)
finger crossed very, very much for Julge

btw. in Gemenec not only the young with the injured leg went close to the fishermen (and got fish), but Tobiás also did it some times and you know the story of a unique friendship between a fisherman and the white stork/Yaren

edit:
I read and saw videos that even black storks search for food in the fields during migration
were you read that about the river (and the fields) - I believe in your words, I just want to read it

edit 2 - info about the river https://www.annuaire-mairie.fr/riviere-la-suippe.html

[Solo]

Estonian Black Storks Migration 2021 from Birdmap
http://birdmap.5dvision.ee/EN/



OVERVIEW

JULGE (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 40#p830240)
- previous data: 17.09.2021 (evening), distance 2581 km (+ 23 km), Pontfaverger-Moronvilliers - commune in the Marne department in north-eastern France
- new data: 18.09.2021 (morning), distance 2581 km (+ 0 km), Pontfaverger-Moronvilliers - commune in the Marne department in north-eastern France

NURME
- previous data: 17.09.2021 - 2399 km (+5 km), stopover place near Mukhivtsi in Ukraine (by Hellem)
- new data: 18.09.2021 - 2404 km (+5 km), stopover place near Mukhivtsi in Ukraine (by Hellem)

EEDI (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 53#p830553)
- previous data: 16.09.2021, distance 2743 km (+ 7 km), south from Halici, Ladik, Sarayönü district, Konya province, Turkey
- new data: 17.09.2021, distance 3125 km (+ 382 km), east from Kaşlıca, Yakapınar, Yüreğir district, Adana province, Turkey

TIMMU (https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 75#p830175 and next by balistar)
- previous data: 13.09.2021 distance 3237 km (+319 km), he flew to the SE direction and sent data near Sorgun in Turkey (by Hellem)
- new data: 15.09.2021 - distance 3675 km (+438 km), sent data from his overnight place near Kfar Selouan, Lebanon (by Hellem)
finger crossed very, very much
btw. the first year of observing Timmu's migration (previous season) we had no news for 8 days until Timmu flew to Ethiopia, where he spent the winter
last data: 24.09.2020; south from Karameh Dam, Shuna al-Janubiyya Department, Balqa Governorate, Jordan (north of the Dead Sea) - new data: 02.10.2020; north east from Metemma - a town in northwestern Ethiopia, located in the Semien Gondar Zone of the Amhara Region (plus 2316 km)

Karl II, Udu and Pikne - see the Following Karls' Families thread